Marcus Bawdon

Owen - Host: 0:00

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Dan - Host: 0:17

Welcome to the new series of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast. Thank you so much for listening. And please do review, like and subscribe depending on how you're listening to us or again if you're on YouTube, but also we have launched a new Facebook group, building a community of people who want to be barbecuing and just love UK barbecue. But if you're anywhere in the world, please do join an add to that you can find us on Facebook, just search for meat & Greet BBQ podcast. On this episode, we are speaking to Marcus Borden of the UK barbecue school. He is an expert he writes for The Telegraph. He has the UK barbecue school, he is a fantastic cook. without much further ado, here's Marcus. So Marcus, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us. Oh, and I have been waiting for this, like excited children waiting for Christmas, because we're fascinated by everything that you are and what you do. But for anyone who doesn't know how to introduce yourself to our listeners.

Marcus Bawdon: 1:19

Thank you guys. So that's really kind. So I'm Marcus Borden. I guess my sort of, you know, my thing I started years ago is country with smoke, a blog and website and social media and Facebook group that's been doing pretty well and growing nicely. I started UK barbecue school from my garden about five ish years ago, five, six years ago. And it started off just helping out groups of friends and my mates and stuff to barbecue a bit better. I worked worked in the oil and gas industry for 25 years. And that sort of ended a couple of years ago really with COVID. And so I decided to give the barbecue school go full time and have an amazing year. Last year it was the barbecue school was built in May. And last year was fantastic. Teaching many, many hundreds of people how to improve their barbecue skills, which is pretty, pretty amazing to be able to do.

Owen - Host: 2:23

And you've got a beautiful purpose kind of built school and having you in their farmland. Is that right? Just near a farm.

Unknown: 2:31

It's on a farm shop about three minutes away two minutes on a good day on a good run. But yeah, luckily farm shop, they've got fantastic meet their vegetables, they can order fishing for me. There's animals running around as pigs and goats and sheep in the fields just around me and ducks on the pond in front of the barbecue school. And yeah, they built the most beautiful barbecue school for me. So I'm very lucky.

Dan - Host: 2:57

It's gorgeous. It's absolutely gorgeous. I looking on Instagram. It's so idyllic. And in the summer, I can't think of a better place to be sitting, cooking, learning and have a drink hopefully afterwards.

Unknown: 3:09

Yeah, thank you. I mean, it's lovely. Year round, really. I've put some sort of wind walls up during the winter just to keep the wind down a little bit. And I mean, I was sad today in the sun. And it was it was beautiful. You know, the Ducks are quacking. And it was just it was just idyllic. But yeah, lovely summer's evening there is pretty special as well.

Owen - Host: 3:33

And what for you then in terms of sort of launching the barbecue school. As you mentioned, you kind of started helping some friends and you know, barbecue better. So for me, let's say I've never done barbecue before. And I come I come down to your school what would what should I expect?

Unknown: 3:57

So my I call it my sort of fundamentals that used to be my barbecue basics. I called it as it's a fundamental sort of class, and it's for complete beginners. The first thing I like to do is to cook is a dirty steak, which actually surprises a lot of people. Because that's quite often seen as something not for beginners. It's an intermediate thing. But what I love about it is a hanger steak and you get some really good charcoal and Yeah, a few minutes aside and make like her base. And what I love about it is it's it's pure essence of barbecue. You just need some hot coals and some meat and that's what I love for beginners and what I quite like to do is a lot of you know, people always have preconceived idea of what barbecue is it Oh, it's sausages and burgers or it's this and that and, and they they have a lot in their head. That's wrong. You know that that they've picked up with These ideas over the years and they're not always very helpful. So what I like to do is totally go Shawn, like that, and restart them. And I love I love it that I dropped the steak on the coals and you see their faces. And you know, that when they have that first taste that you've got them, and probably like, 90% of my, my people on my Basics class, they, they go ahead, go straightaway, and they want to cook it that dirty steak for themselves, it tastes amazing, it's easy, and it's, it's a bit of fun theater as well, which is good. You know, they want to do that for their mates and show them that they're their barbecue heroes themselves. And, and I like that I'm, I'm all about making people's lives easier, more, more stress free. And, you know, people get worried and stressed about barbecue, and I hear the same things over and over again, I'm not sure I'm stressed. And I just like to totally remove that. And then maybe I just want to make people barbecue heroes amongst their friends and family. That's my goal. And make them feel confident to do that. So that works a treat. I and then I build up in a good way how to cook with with charcoal on a barbecue. You know, I show them heat control. And we cook a roast beef joint topside, and they love that. I do hate to make a dry rub. And then we smoke some chicken plies. And yeah, that's about four hours all in and they have a good feed and nice relaxing time. And it's it's it's good. Yeah.

Owen - Host: 6:38

Do you find that most of your you know, most of the attendees to school? Are you finding you're having a lot more kind of beginners and novices coming into barbecue they're interested in they're not confident enough to try it on their own, obviously wants to come to you first? Or are you actually getting quite a nice mix of intermediate and perhaps more seasoned barbecue as well.

Unknown: 6:59

A real nice mix, actually, you know, my, my, the sort of fundamentals one is people who've either total beginners or people who've been doing it a while maybe they haven't got confidence in it, or they've lost some confidence. Sometimes I get some quite experienced people who say look, I just want to I'm struggling with something, I just want to get things clear in my head. And I do an intermediate courses for people who've been around a bit more. And that that helps. And I do live fire class, which is, you know, only cooking with words, not charcoal. And that gets more more experienced people in again. So I like to give some something for everyone if, you know, we're all learning, you know, there's there's there's always something new to learn for everyone. And it's being open to that and and enjoying you know. And yeah, having a good having a good laugh as well. That's important.

Dan - Host: 7:58

Playing with Fire is so exciting. I love the fact that you say the first thing that you do with these people just to blow their minds is to do a steak because oh no, I've been saying for ages. Part of the reason that we did this podcast was trying to say to people give it a go, that's half the fun. But even we wouldn't have thought to go, you know, go do it stick straightaway. Why not? But there's no reason not to give it a go. It's off the front, right?

Unknown: 8:24

Absolutely, absolutely. Give it a try. Give it a try. And if it doesn't work out, then you've learned something, then, you know, we learned learn about our failures. You know, when I first started, I had a lot of failures. I learned quite quickly from those. And that for me doing the classes is to jumpstart people, so they they don't have so many failures, and they can they can enjoy it without stressing.

Owen - Host: 8:51

So wait, where do you get the inspiration for kind of all your, your cooks that you want to see in Parliament, to people to learn.

Unknown: 9:00

So for my classes is stuff I've been doing for a long time, I've been doing a lot of demos over the years, you know, shows and things. I picked up a sort of repertoire for that, you know, dirty steaks was always on that, you know, I love it that you've got people you know, you, you do that in front of a crowd and you've got people and then they taste it and and so that was always you know, I've been doing that for sort of 10 years really dirty steaks, and it just waves people you know and people come to it and they go well is it gonna taste gritty or ashy or burns or something? And you know, I've had some quite negative stuff but in my direction about that people say are it's gonna be gritty and nasty and horrible. And I love it that they taste it and if it's done right, you know, I've seen a lot of people not doing it right. You know, people using poor quality charcoal and then they complain that it's actually in gritty I had one one guy who told me I didn't know what I was talking about. And he tried to do a dirty steak. And it was bitty and gritty and not very nice. I said, Well, what charcoal did you use? And he said, I didn't use charcoal. I used it on my gas grill on the, the lava rocks at the bottom of a gas grid.

Owen - Host: 10:26

I suppose, as quite must have been quite humbling for him to actually then realize that it wasn't. Yeah, I don't

Unknown: 10:34

know about that. But yeah, certainly, it was a lesson for him. So

Owen - Host: 10:39

I have to admit, the first time I did a dirty steak. I think I used briquettes instead of lump wood. And I did find that as it started to turn white, and I was placing it, there was just a little bit too much ash that came off, it still tasted amazing, but perhaps just a little bit more crunchy than I was. I mean,

Unknown: 10:59

I mean, the thing, the way I've seen is, I'm always very clear, you've got to use very high quality lumpwood charcoal, get it really red hot, give it a quick blow, just before you put a stake in that ramps up the temperature, and it just removes any surface ash and then put your stake on. And I've always been very clear about that. But what I've seen over the years is that people who who've done that themselves, and it's grown, I mean, you know, like, you know, 10 years ago, nobody was doing that everyone thought I was bonkers doing it. But it's becoming more and more popular now. Which is great. But I see people copying others who maybe haven't told them that they have to use good quality charcoal they have to use and that it's like Chinese whispers it loses its and then people come back to me and say I don't know what I'm talking about because they've obviously struggled with it and it's not not been as good as it could be. So

Owen - Host: 12:01

do you do you have a preference in terms of what steak you would normally go for? For 30 stake.

Unknown: 12:08

So either I do Tomahawk with a nice, you know, a dirty car and then you know, finish it, finish it direct or do reverse here like that. My absolute go to is hanger steak though. It's just perfect for it. It really is the perfect steak for dirty steak. I've tried lots over the years and it just works superbly. It's about four minutes aside, and it's you know, take it to about 50 degrees and it's it's a phenomenal steak. A hanger steak it really is

Dan - Host: 12:44

for me, man.

Unknown: 12:47

Wow, nice herby, garlicky based chimichurri or something.

Dan - Host: 12:52

For me the most exciting thing that I've seen, I've been lucky enough to see you do two different demonstrations. You do the sizzle fest, and also the smuggler fire. But the thing that excites me the most is what is the little extra techniques where you bring the steak out and then you'll put the butter on and the bit of charcoal and put it on top of the butter. But that draw you tomorrow? It's Oh, I got it. Yeah, I'd love to do that in front of people. Again it's a confidence thing but it's not something I've seen anyone else do or talk about but it looks phenomenal smells you get from it. Oh incredible.

Unknown: 13:32

Yeah. Yeah, so I tend to do with bone marrow on a steak. I'm a great believer in trying to keep the same facts to the you know to the meat so if you say there's nothing wrong with using butter on it, you know it's quite nice but I've I've come away from that because it it changes the steak and if you have a beautiful like Rare Breed you know grass fed steak and you put butter on it then you get a buttery Enos to it. So what I found is by using bone marrow or like some beef dripping or something but bone marrows, the best melting that maybe with some herbs and garlic with the charcoal on top, it just really intensifies the flavor and it is fantastic. It really is so good.

Owen - Host: 14:20

And what what I'm cutting quite to it straightaway really but what kind of plans if you've got for the barbecue school then for for 2022 Is there anything new and exciting any different courses?

Unknown: 14:33

So I did I did my first live fire class last year there'll be more of those to come. Sue Steinman good friend of mine is doing more baking classes. She is an absolute legend. And a real real star. We have a lovely lady called Neela who is amazing. So she's relatively new to the fire cooking, but she cooks the most amazing dem foods on the barbecue and she is yeah, she's, she's really good. And I, we're looking busy already, we're pretty much booked up until the summer already, which is phenomenal. So many people during, we were quite taken aback so many people wanting to buy presents for their, their, their loved ones over over Christmas and wanting a place on barbecue school. So that is amazing. Yeah, the the program, I've always got these big plans to do like a fish one. I mean, last year, I just didn't have time, I had so many people wanting to do that basic and intermediate class. It was hard to fit in extra stuff. But it's, it's good for me to do extra, I did a Christmas class, which I've done Christmas demos and classes in other places, but it's really nice to do one on my home turf. So I'd like to a seafood class. I'd also just like to do some really something else, maybe just some damn delicious sexy food, like, you know, you know, I think just something something a bit for me as well. I'd also quite like the idea of doing a whole weekend class as well. But it's, it's, I try and keep it to one class a weekend. You know, it's it's hard with fat, you know, fat young family, if you're away at the weekend, I give everything to my classes, I really, you know, I'm shattered at the end of a class. And to do two I've done I've done three on the trot before, I've actually did one where I did four days in a row at the early part of last year, and I was exhausted after the end of it because I really do give everything and you know, it's a full day, you know, my classes are sort of four or five hours really with the people there. But with all the prep and the clean down after and everything, you know, it's a full day, and I'm pretty tired at the end of it, you know, I'm getting towards 15 days, I'm not a spring chicken anymore. You know, it's a long day. And I really do give everything to my classes, you know, so

Owen - Host: 17:22

I suppose that must be so important, though, obviously, being so immersed in it with your students that kind of really gives gives that, you know, experience that they hope you know, that they're paying for and wanting to achieve at the end of every

Unknown: 17:36

is people people really deserve that, you know, they they've had a rough couple of years. And people you know, they want a really lovely experience. They want to learn how to barbecue. They just want a nice time and i i I'm one of these people I love that that I can host that and give that and share that experience with them. And for me that's really important that they go away feeling you know that they've really enjoyed themselves and learnt lots. You know, it's

Owen - Host: 18:10

what sort of class sizes do you have? Is it quite intimate? Or do you have big groups?

Unknown: 18:17

Yeah, so when I was doing it from home here, I'd have so off four to six people at my new place six to 10 Usually some of my beginners class so I go up to 12 and I was doing 14 or 15 but it felt too big. So 1010 to 12 for my beginners and intermediate ones a bit more involved so usually about eight for that and the live fire about eight as well. So

Dan - Host: 18:48

what really excited it's the Christmas one. So I have cooked Christmas meal meals for our families for last at least two years on the barbecue and really enjoyed it for me now it's part of Christmas that on Christmas Eve 11pm I'll be like in the barbecue and getting ready to smoke something overnight, which is great. What do you actually do on your Christmas course then?

Unknown: 19:13

So I I've been doing Christmas dinners on the barbecue for about 10 years again. I love it. You know I remember ruining my first one. I got this lovely Turkey and I got a creaky smoker, brand new Pro key smoker and I chucked about four or five big chunks of oak on there. And it was so smoky this turkey you know, it ruined the turkey basically and so you know, I teach you know, we usually do like a turkey crying and I teach them how to make like a festive rub. You know and I use like you know a nice festive sort of mix spice sort of rub, you know, little tweak on one of my rubs and that goes down well. I did a ham and I glaze it with maling syrup, which is you pop into wine and warm it up it makes makes wine mold wine. But this mulling Serapis got a stick of cinnamon in and all the flavors of Christmas really. So we do that. I did sprites you know in cream and with walnuts which you know I do those on on the fire pit. My festive fatty always goes down well as well you know, stuffed with cranberries and blue cheese and chestnuts and things like that sausage meat and wrapped in bacon. That goes tasty. Yeah, yeah. And this year, we had a new one. We had the bacon wrapped mince pies, which went down an absolute storm. I don't know if you've seen them on my socials. But I did like a wrap on around a mince pie and then, you know, smoked it and then glazed it with maple syrup. Those were really an eye opener. And I did a bacon wrapped Christmas pudding as well.

Dan - Host: 21:05

Cool. Yeah, I saw that because I remember seeing, seeing that and thinking. I've not seen anyone do anything like that before. What inspired you to start wrapping Christmas pudding in bacon apart from the fact that bacon goes with everything, obviously. Yeah, exactly.

Unknown: 21:19

I mean, I did the mince pies. And that was one, you know, there was the whole Oreo thing. And I wasn't, I'm not, you know, I'm not big on cakes and biscuits really. And at that point, I clocked it. And I thought right, I'm going to do that with mince pies when it comes to Christmas. I have not seen anyone do it. And I tried to add a couple of times did a video of it. And yeah, you know, so is it me too. I just like anything's it's wrapped in bacon. But actually everyone who was trying it, and the guys on the class loved it. And yeah, it was really good. The Chris was putting, I'd say it was interesting, it doesn't have it doesn't take on particularly any benefit, huge benefit from the bacon part from it just being bacon there. But it does get a nice smoke flavor from the cherry smoke that I use. But the bacon sort of helps keep the surface of it moist and stop, stop it drying out which is a bonus. And then you just get some crispy bacon at the end and have that with some maple syrup or brandy buttons and cream and it's delicious.

Owen - Host: 22:29

It's so gorgeous. It

Dan - Host: 22:30

looks so gorgeous. I've just I think quickly swiping while we've been talking because I wanted to see it and the thing is, I personally am not a huge fan of mince pies, but I know that that will be good because bacon improves every day.

Unknown: 22:46

I had I had a few people on the class so they don't like mince pies but they try it and they were all converted. So yeah, you know, give it give them a go. If

Owen - Host: 22:59

that's it you mentioned obviously when you first tried 10 years ago cooking your turkey on the barbecue use quite a lot of oak. Do you still use oak footer? Or do you start softer like cherry or?

Unknown: 23:12

Yeah cherry one chunk of cherry now is what I do. I actually I actually went out we had a big big Christmas this year after not having it not having one last year so we had all my wife's family around was 15 of us i i made my life really easy this year. There's a lot of food and I did it on the web of smoke fire so I fired that up and just just make made use of that really, just to make it as easy on myself as I could but normally I do on a KJ or you know, Weber kettle or something, you know, Turkey crown and a ham cherry one chunk of cherry smoke and that's perfect for the

Owen - Host: 23:54

color it gives me on Turkey I've done a crown with cherry wood and the kind of almost like burgundy kind of red that it gets around the outside is beautiful.

Unknown: 24:05

Where I've sort of I I've always been a big fan of silver birch That's lovely. Apples lovely oaks got specific uses. But every time I sort of go to you something else I go well why didn't I use cherry there? You know, it would have been better with a better color with cherry. You know, like apples lovely but you don't get that quite so much that lovely pinky red color you get with the cherry and the sweetness. So you know, I always say to myself if I use another word then why wouldn't I use cherry so

Dan - Host: 24:38

I fell in love with cherry wood over the last sort of six months because I hadn't really tried that many different words but my brother in law's a stonemason and he actually managed to get me a load of untreated untouched oak from a job that he'd been a church. So I've been working my way through that and like you said, there's there's a punch right with it with own very distinctive, very strong You don't want to try something different. But the smell not only that the smells when you're cooking with cherry are absolutely phenomenal. My daughter keeps asking me what sweetie hos sweetie because like, no, that's what's cooking. It's, it's amazing.

Unknown: 25:14

Do you know what people miss out though they miss out that you can combo words. So if I'm doing American barbecue, like your traditional brisket or pork, pork or something, I would add some hickory or pecan words and a chunk of cherry and you get a really nice balance and between the sweet of the the the cherry and you know, the hickory, hickory and cherry are lovely together that makes such a good, good flavor. Oak and oak and cherry are good as well you get it back balances out that some of the harshness you might get from from the oak with the sweetness of the cherry. So putting those two together really works a tree

Dan - Host: 25:57

for beginners, how would you start planning out those different flavor profiles with smoke? What tips have you got for different woods for different meats and cooks?

Unknown: 26:06

Okay, so I, I would say that, don't overthink it. If you've so that you've got heavy words, so you've got oaks and hickories, and the heavier flavors, and then you've got the lighter flavors, your ashes, your beech, Birch, cherries, apples, things like that. You know, the apples getting more sort of medium, rarely. But think about your flavor profile. And the balance of the food. If you've got too strong a flavor of smoke, it can overpower the food and you can't taste anything else. It's kind of kind of like looking at an ashtray. If it's too strong, not that I look at ashtrays all the time.

Dan - Host: 27:00

But it's a phrase as well

Unknown: 27:05

is so yeah, think about the whole thing you're doing and the combination does a sweet smoke work well, are you trying to get an American flavor profile to copy. You know, if you're doing a brisket, American style, then you'd want, you know, some oak in now or some hickory and cherry you know, to balance it a little bit. You'd want that punchier flavor. If you're doing something lighter, maybe some lamb then you want to go to the lighter end of that the Birch is lovely with that Ash and a chunky cherry which is very gentle with lamb. So really think about what you're trying to achieve. And don't just load up loads of word less smoke is better always and more smoke

Owen - Host: 27:55

Yeah, I think that's a really really good advice. I'm interested to know at the school Marcus what yeah, what what kind of set up have you got in terms of equipment? I think you've already mentioned a Weber and I saw a couple of YouTube videos where I think you had a summit.

Unknown: 28:12

I've got about a million barbecues there. So I got some air. I've got a kJ. I've got I think I think wherever 57 So I've got about four, four or five wherever 50 sevens. I think they're really important for people to learn on because they're quite accessible. I've got a pro Q bullet smokers. I've got my Hellraiser that I love. I've got Somerset grills Glastonbury of Sardo nice, bigger Sardo grill for my live fire. I've got a little elevator wood fired oven there just for doing breads and pizzas and flatbreads and stuff. What else have I got? I've got a couple of well quite a few fire pits. cat dies and fire gos the Argentinian style fire pits and a few others. I've got ferrous grills for doing dirty states. I've got a couple of pellet grills do my heavy lifting. Like if I'm doing breads or you know what would I do on that? I do I do the pork belly burnt ends on there. I've got a few odds and sods I've got some. I got Barney X smoker. I've got a you know, like electric style smoker. Got a little Bradley smoker. Big monoliths. I've got a What else have I got? I've got a lovely Tandoor as well, that I've been playing with recently cooking up some tandoori. So a few grills there.

Owen - Host: 29:55

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Dan - Host: 30:03

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Owen - Host: 30:09

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Dan - Host: 30:51

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Owen - Host: 31:02

Visit aos kitchens.co.uk. And I also wanted to ask as well, obviously, you're a published author. You've got a couple of cookbooks. I've got one of them myself. I'm actually cooking your chili brownies. Oh, yeah. Oh, cool. I've got some friends coming up tomorrow. So I'm quite looking forward to that. And you mentioned about Sue, we actually spoke to sue earlier this week. And she's been getting being a guest on the podcast, and we were talking about baking. And I'm super excited to try it. Marcus. So

Unknown: 31:38

you got some ancho ancho chilies, have you?

Owen - Host: 31:41

I'm going to get some tomorrow.

Dan - Host: 31:43

That was a no, no. Yeah.

Unknown: 31:47

They're really good, because they're quite fruity and sweet. So they just worked really well. Really well with it.

Owen - Host: 31:55

Yeah, I was gonna say because I suppose a normal rich hilly probably doesn't give the same.

Unknown: 32:01

No, it's It's almost like sort of sweet yumminess about about an NGO, it's, it's quite a sort of plummy, sort of, you know, it's, it's really delicious. When they're dry, and you rehydrate them and they, they go quite fruity, they're lovely. Not too.

Owen - Host: 32:23

I'm excited to give them a go. Because I was saying to say earlier, earlier, for all the years I've done barbecue, I've never really been a put in person. I've never tried doing any kind of puddings or desserts on the barbecue. So I'm looking forward to that. But what does that mean? I'm,

Unknown: 32:38

I'm I'm not particularly you know, I don't do a lot of puddings, I tend to keep it quite simple. I am in order. So she is phenomenal what she does, I always try and when she does a class, always try and hang around towards the end just to have a few little tasters. She does the most amazing Pavlovas and Medicaid. You know, she's, she's phenomenal.

Dan - Host: 33:05

I'm so excited. He said that because when we were talking to sue, she talked about the pavlova on the barbecue. As she left, obviously, people will have heard this before they won't when they listen to the podcast episode, she left it open, and I just said to each other, I don't think Pavlo for the barbecues that easy. Like it's just it's but the way that not only how she talks about it with real passion for that is that she explains it all just in war, but it just shows people you can do anything with a barbecue. It's having a goat, right?

Unknown: 33:39

Exactly, exactly. And she you know, she's a great cook, she she cooks phenomenal food on the barbecue, not just cakes. And I you know, I saw this, sorry, my dogs going. I sort of discovered, I guess discovered how I got I got to meet her at Devon county show, as she was doing a demo there for woodfired oven company. And I just thought she's pretty good. We just became really good friends. And I've tried, you know, I try to encourage her because I see a real talent there. I'm always on the lookout for people who I see who I think have got some real talent as really talented people in the barbecue community. And I try to do my best to support that and to help them grow and to put opportunities away. And that's I love to do that. You know that there's some really special people out there. And his help helping them find their voice a little bit.

Owen - Host: 34:40

And that's how the community grows, I suppose. Because then they can find their voice. They can also then do the same. They'll find, nurture them and then bring them up and all of a sudden we've got a really strong UK.

Unknown: 34:52

Exactly. Exactly that. You've nailed it.

Owen - Host: 34:56

So I kind of went off on a tangent talking about Brian but I was actually going to ask him, you know, you've got your two cookbooks, is there a third in the pipeline is that say you're

Unknown: 35:09

potentially I've been predefined. You know, it's not an easy thing to pull together an idea for a book. The first I mean food and fire was pretty much my sort of, you know, everything my everything book, An Introduction to me and my food and you know, a lot of what I believe is good food. skewered I just saw real opportunity that there weren't any barbecue books, really in the UK on skewer cooking and I saw a big gap there. I'd like to do something a bit more balanced food wise, I mean, food and fire was a bit meaty. See skillet was a bit meaty. I'd like to do something a bit more balanced. Food wise, probably not a veggie BBQ book. I do like that idea. But I mean, for me, Jen Taylor has absolutely smashed it with her chart book. So yeah, I, you know, I was eventually for 14 years. And I love I love veggie cooked on the barbecue. But I don't know if I wanted to fall Bob veggie barbecue book. But yeah, something may be a bit just a bit more balanced. You know, so many people are, you know, got different dietary requirements or, you know, if you do a party, you might have guessed, veggie or vegan. So just to give a few different options, maybe. But yeah, I've certainly got nothing, nothing definite lined up yet.

Owen - Host: 36:45

What's the space?

Unknown: 36:47

In a few ideas together? Rarely. So it's, it's quite a, you know, people think that writing a recipe books just writing down some recipes, and anyone can do and it's, it's really not that straightforward. You know, I've been I've been recipe writing for sort of 10 odd years. And, you know, it's, it's, it's not easy, but it's, it's a wonderful thing to be able to do. I'm really proud of my books really proud of them.

Dan - Host: 37:17

You point there, it's so true. If everyone could do it, everyone would do it. Yeah. Frankly, do you know I'd love to touch upon you talked about growing the community. And I've been looking through your Instagram earlier today. And there's some fantastic posts particularly recently as well that people should go check out but I'd love to touch on them. So anyone who's really not barbecued before first question I have for you is if someone's just starting out what top five accessories should they look into to improve the barbecue game?

Unknown: 37:51

Oh, after about what I put Yeah, Mama to definitely for confidence, you know. And an accuracy I think it's really important. Good set a tongs, you know, is really important. A good knife. Really important. I can't remember what else I put. I know my last one's always have a beer. Most cold beer. I quite like some butchers paper or some trays to lay stuff out on. You know, I'm quite into like, a big you know, you want to go for a big platter really. So you need something to lay out on. I like I've got some some sort of butchers trays. And I'll put those down with a bit of butchers paper on and really presented nicely. A nice nice platter of food. You know,

Dan - Host: 38:42

you've got all five there so well done. Like, oh, in an eye. We're not experts at all. I mean, we've talked about this before on the podcast, so I'll get oh, it's been cooking on barbecues longer than I have but my father used to do a barbecue for us every Saturday from probably mid spring right through until it got too cold for him to physically be out there. And brought up in Wales. He said a lot of fish in a river in the backyard and other people would like to catch stuff with and everything. So I have a bit of a different experience than physically cooking myself. But cooking to temperature rather than time on barbecue is the biggest tip that we give people who are listening to this podcast. What was the biggest tip that you would give people who've never barbecued before?

Unknown: 39:33

That same one. So yes,

Dan - Host: 39:36

we've done it right.

Unknown: 39:40

You know, there's the obvious ones as well. Above, you know, Musa led, setting your coals up to zone cooking are different zones. My one one thing I find that helps really helps a lot of people is what I call my car analogy. And like people struggle with temperature control on something like a web or cattle or, you know barbecue, the lead. And temperature control is something people, you know, they fiddle with events, they don't really know what they're doing. They just fiddle with events. And I might my car analogy, basically, I say, think of your barbecue as a car. And I say they're all different colors, different shapes, different sizes, they'll all get you from A to B, some will be more comfortable and easier, some, you'll have to be a bit more involved. And you know, others are racing cars, others a family big spaces, and it really works. And like controlling a car, you control your barbecue and I say the vent on the top is your brake, you start shutting that down, and that will break act as a brake on your coals, and your air inlet at the bottom. Whatever that is, the more you have that open, the hotter it gets. That's like your accelerator pedal. So you've got a brake and an accelerator pedal. Now I choose mostly to drive my car on the accelerator pedal only using the brakes to make major adjustments, you know. And, you know, I'll do all my flying control on on my accelerator pedal on the air getting in. And that really helps a lot of people that that so many people come back to me and say you nailed that you've you've you've helped me, I've struggled with this for years, you've you've helped me. So that is a really good one. I think

Dan - Host: 41:30

I learned that from you. That's how I look at a barbecue in particular. And I got my monolith that's looking up into it and reading what you were talking about. It's the car analogy altogether. That and the other rules that I live by, which are in laughs is looking not clicking. And the other one, yeah, and the other one is chicken 75 Stay alive.

Unknown: 41:59

That's what I that's what I teach my kids. So my kids have all had barbecue since they were little. And I mean, nobody remembers 74 For for ticket. So I've always taught them 75 Stay alive. And I do that on my class as well. So yeah, they're all solid ones. Yeah.

Dan - Host: 42:17

Fan that we both are doing. Barbecue.

Owen - Host: 42:24

I'm just picturing myself and I go out there and like the barbecue tomorrow. But every time I open the van, it'd be like, sort of

Dan - Host: 42:33

like a millimeters make a difference. Right? That's the other thing that I've learned from cooking with, with the Monolith is like people just think open close. But literally millimeters make a huge, huge difference in using the top and bottom vents.

Unknown: 42:48

Absolutely. And it's not having too much coal as well, you know, I use a couple of handfuls of coal, and that that last four or five hours 180 You know, for cooking, so, you know, people use too much charcoal. And you don't need need to use too much. So, yeah,

Owen - Host: 43:10

I know, you've given a lot of advice, Marcos, which is which is absolutely gold. And I think people are going to really take a lot, you know, listening to this. But one of the things we celebrate on this podcast is barbecue fails. And I would love to hear some of the barbecue fails that you've you've had over your time.

Unknown: 43:28

So probably the turkey that was a big lesson early on, you know, over smoking it usually if I have a failure, you know, and I still I still burn stuff, I still have failures. You know, and I try and be open about them when I can, you know, sometimes if you're promoting a brand and you have a failure, you probably have to be a bit more careful. I mean, I you know you usually if something goes wrong, it's because I get drawn away by family. Family Matters, you know, family important, you know, important stuff. And you know, I'll have a steak on I get dragged away and then it's overcooked or something you know, so usually it's something else you know, I was one recently so on my Christmas class here we go on my Christmas class, you know, it's very hard teaching entertaining, cooking juggling everything. What did I do? I did some nuts, some smoked nuts and I put I put some maple syrup you know put some spice on them and some maple syrup. And probably about half of them were were over caramelized let's say because yeah when when when Mike you know the gas started arriving you're attending to them looking after them making them a drink and stuff. And you know, you take your eye off the ball so the ones close the nuts closer to the fire were a little bit Let's say

Dan - Host: 45:03

we talk about barbecue fails all the time. And it's how people learn and hearing the sound like yourself still have these fails has to be inspirational to the people who are learning and just enjoying the barbecuing, which is the key point. So my one that I haven't talked about is I put the post on Instagram, I did a, I was experimenting mistakes, I was using maple syrup. And I did two different states one I thought I'd put the maple syrup on beforehand. And one I thought I'd put the maple syrup on after while it was Westing just just a test. So the resting steak with a maple syrup I really enjoyed it was a little bit different. But when I put maple syrup on beforehand, I mean that stuff more than caramelizes quickly when you're playing with Ollie.

Owen - Host: 45:54

So yeah,

Dan - Host: 45:55

this thing tasted nice. And it was very different. But um blackened steak. That's right in the middle is a very exciting experience for anyone else other than you if you're experimenting. But playing with flavors is something that I very much enjoy a barbecue. And again, like, I can't know who it was we were talking to on this podcast, but someone said to me, try maple syrup on beef and it'll it'll blow your mind. It's something very different. What sort of flavors do you experiment with that have really shocked you?

Unknown: 46:33

Are things like mince pies and bacon was a surprise. Oh, try it. So some of my favorite pork rubs for ribs, for example, are actually B for abs. And yeah, I really like something a bit more savory with my pork, but then are balanced out with something maybe a bit sweeter with a bit of maple syrup. glaze over the top just to balance out. I find a lot of rubs for pork, for example, quite often too sweet. If you then add something sweet on top. So yeah, I like something a bit more balanced. Savory wise, so

Owen - Host: 47:19

great. Talking about suppose flavors. One of the things that we also like to do on the podcast is our barbecue bingo challenge, where we can hopefully set you a challenge up on a barbecue. So what I'm going to do is I'll share my screen, there's a list of ingredients or, or flavor profiles that we'd like you to do. And we'll basically spend, we'll see what it lands on. Okay. Yeah, if you could cook for us, that'd be great.

Unknown: 47:49

Like a challenge.

Dan - Host: 47:51

Not only that, it gives you the opportunity to cook for yourself, which I know you said you don't get a lot of time to do. Is there anything that you're allergic to at all? No. Good, because we've had that before where we've set it up and had peanuts on there. So But nope, cannot do that if it comes up because I will die. And so that's good

Owen - Host: 48:16

to hear. There's also there's also my signature dish. What would you say your signature dish is?

Unknown: 48:23

Probably the day steaks.

Owen - Host: 48:26

Great. So if it lands on my signature dish, dirty steaks would be happy to cook. Yeah,

Unknown: 48:33

that'd be a pleasure to have. Yeah.

Owen - Host: 48:37

Okay, great. Right. I'll give it a spin and see where we go.

Dan - Host: 48:42

We were talking about this earlier, because we're thinking what can we give Marcus? That's a little bit different. Wow, we could not have planned that better. So for everyone listening, uh, Marcus has just been given the challenge of doing his signature dish, which we all know is to eat steak. So you can probably knock out one of your classes, right?

Unknown: 49:07

Yeah, I've got a class on Monday I'm doing no no, Saturday, I think it is. I've got my basic class, my beginners class. So Monday, I've got an intermediate so I'll go I'll come up with something I'll often think, you know, if I just do a basic T steak I'll I'll ever think.

Dan - Host: 49:29

I don't know how much different things you can do with it. The stakes are more interesting to see if you can't with them in different ways different.

Owen - Host: 49:40

Well, trust me. Great stuff. Obviously, we've asked you lots and lots of questions. Is there anything that perhaps we haven't spoken about yet or asked that you would like to kind of, I suppose talk about and you know, have a conversation with our readers. Since even,

Unknown: 50:01

I guess, I guess that's gonna be some good so, so people in the last couple of years, who have come into barbecuing have missed out on a lot of things, you know, the the Instagram stuff the community online and stuff is, is really good, really fantastic. But a few years ago, there used to be some really great events. And, you know, like shows, festivals, barbecue events, you know, used to be grill stock and barbecue competitions. You know, smoke and fire last year's been black deer, there's been what else sizzle fast last year there was. So what I'd say. So barbecue is a really sociable thing. So those who are new to it have missed out on that, take advantage of that is wonderful, these events support them, that, you know, they're going to be getting going again, support all these events go to meet people meet, you know, chat barbecues are so friendly, they want to meet people they want to share, they want to share their love. You know, I'm doing some of the shows again this year. You know, and I'm really looking forward to that, you know, so nice last year to be able to get to do, you know, sizzle, fats, and smoke and fire, you know, just to meet people who hadn't seen for a couple of years. So I'd say to people just get out there and do those events to share, you know, but the time off, go and do the make sure you do them support them, you know, and then we can build on them for future years, you know, the scenes growing, we need to get more people involved in that, you know, have a go at demoing as well. If people feel confident, you know, get up there on stage and show people your favorite dish to cook. That's how I got started going around garden centers and doing shows and stuff, showing what I was passionate about, you know, people love barbecue, they want to share it. So I'd say to people get involved, get go go to the events, go to a few then have a go have a go at some of these competitions as well. They're wonderful. Take a judging course if you like you know, get involved. Those those events, you know, as amazing as the online stuff is, barbecue is a social thing. And real people real food, get out there and try it and have fun

Dan - Host: 52:27

Arcus it's Oh, and I've been talking about this for over a month about how excited and honored we were to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you so much for giving us your time. And there's so much to learn from you and the UK barbecue scene. Not only is it growing, it's something different that people should look at. But just that last time, let people know how they can see you follow you and learn from you here barbecue.

Unknown: 52:54

So I'm country with smoke most places. I think Twitter and Devin would smoke because country with smoke was too big. So Devin would smoke on their country would smoke most places. UK barbecue school. I've got websites country with smoke.com UK barbecue school, UK barbecue review.com, where me and Joe artists, he's an amazing guy, a really good friend, where we review stuff, you know, review kit and rubs and things. So yeah, there's that the the magazine as well is really important. Barbecue magazine. I think it's the barbecue mag.com. And that's so that started when I was sat on an oil rig in the North Sea about six years ago. And I did I did it digitally for about five years. And then a guy came on my course who was a publisher who we got chatting about the magazine he said I'll go have a look at it. And that's been going couple of years now. And it's a wonderful printed. I don't know if you guys get that but it's okay.

Dan - Host: 54:00

Oh, in subscribes and I am a cheapskate and borrow. But we also work in publishing as well so we can fully appreciate what you're doing there and it's a phenomenal thing people should look into it subscribe to it bias learn from it's amazing.

Unknown: 54:16

Yeah, thank you. And I've got a YouTube channel as well country with smoke on there. That 10,000 odd people has been going quite a few years since there's loads of stuff on there for beginners and more experienced people. So you know, I do like to help people whatever their sort of skill skill level you know.

Owen - Host: 54:36

Once again, Marcus, thanks so much for coming on to the podcast and and we hope to see you again you know, in one of the festivals that is going on this year. Yeah.

Unknown: 54:46

Yeah, definitely. I'm going to be around a bit this year. I've got a few plans so yeah, definitely. Good. Good to meet you.

Owen - Host: 54:51

Yeah, thank you very much Marcus speeches for another episode of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast. It was an absolute pleasure to have Marcus on and I think everyone will agree there's some solid barbecue advice really, really nice bloke and has so much expertise. So don't forget to go to the country with smoke Facebook group check out the UK barbecue school. As ever we want to hear from you we want to talk on the podcast about things that matter to you within barbecue so please get in touch with all of the usual channels through social media at meat & Greet BBQ podcast. Our newly launched Facebook group meat & Greet BBQ podcast. If you're watching this on YouTube, please give us a like subscribe if you're listening through your favorite podcast app, leave a review it helps us gain visibility for the show and grow the show. Also, if you'd like to support us and help us grow, then if you please go to our website meat & Greet BBQ podcast calm and you'll see the buy me a coffee widget in the bottom left hand corner. If you'd like to help support and grow, then that'll be absolutely amazing and any donation would be appreciated. We want to create more and more exciting episodes for you. And until next week, keep on grilling.

Dan - Host: 56:08

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