Transcript
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Today's episode of the Meat and Greet Barbecue Podcast is brought to you by AOS Outdoor Kitchens.
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They are the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Meat and Greet Barbecue Podcast.
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Today we're speaking to Matthew Hoggard, otherwise known as Hoggy, from Hoggy's Grill, where we're going to talk to him about how he's gone from professional cricketer right the way through to barbecue school owner and everything in between as well.
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But Hoggy can talk more about that.
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So, without much further ado, here's Hoggy.
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Welcome, hoggy, to the Meat and Greet BBQ podcast.
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It's fantastic to have you here and for everyone.
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Please introduce yourself.
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Let us know who you are.
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Yeah, so I am Matthew Hoggard, a ex-cricketer, a now-BBQ school proprietor and a massive mickey-taker.
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Perfect, that's exactly what we want to hear, in which case, it's a big leap from one of your professions to the other where you find yourself now.
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Talk us through that journey of how you went from cricket to barbecue school proprietor.
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I was going to say from cricket to Mickey Taker.
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Yeah, so I was going to say from cricketer to mickey taker.
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No, that's always been the mickey taker, throughout the, throughout the life, really.
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Um, but from cricketer to um barbecue.
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I went to south africa at 18 years old and I played club cricket over there and they bri every night.
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They've got the weather for it, they've got fantastic meat and they've got cold beers and lovely wines.
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And to sit out in the open almost guaranteed nice weather.
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Um, with the smell of the real fire, with the, the drinking, the eating and just creating such lovely memories of standing out and enjoying each other's company while barbecue in England Fell in love with it.
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I've been doing it for the last 40 years so not too long and I was lucky enough to make a profession through cricket.
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I was lucky enough to play for my country for nine years.
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I played professional cricket for 16 years and I retired in 2013.
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I tried my hand at coaching commentary, I tried my hand at insurance, I tried my hand at foreign currency and I didn't love any of it.
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And my wife got rather angry with me and said right, you need to find something you're passionate about.
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And I said eating and drinking.
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Eating and drinking was barbecue school.
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I say nobody knows how to barbecue in the UK, but barbecuing.
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In the UK people tend to pre-cook the chicken in the oven before they plonk it on the on the barbecue.
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They burn the sausages.
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They get horrible patties from the supermarket.
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I wanted to educate people so and you know all the time it shouldn't be stressful.
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You can cook anything on a grill that you can cook in a kitchen, and I wanted to share my love of the alfresco dining and real fire cooking with everybody else.
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So hence we opened Hoggy's Grill.
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Was Hoggy's Grill always kind of first in mind when you were going through that?
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You know what am I going to do next after after those series of things.
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Was it just barbecue school?
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Or did you not think about catering or chefing?
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Or was it just straight to teaching people?
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No, not at all.
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So again, it was like leaving school.
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So you retire from professional sport.
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It's like leaving school, but 40 years after, 30 years later, you haven't got any qualifications that are current or that people want.
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You've got an e-touch, you've got a driver.
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You don't know what to do with yourself.
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And when you're 17 and you've got a, an e-touch, you've got a drive, but you don't know what to do with yourself.
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And when you're 17 and you've left school, you can jump and up, up and down ladders and change career paths.
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I didn't know what to do with myself at all.
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Um, I was coming in hour and about a barbecue school.
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Um, we said, right, well, you want to do it, let's do it.
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We didn't know where to do it.
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So we had a word with the local butchers who had the lambing sheds that we were going to convert into a barbecue school.
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They wanted a little bit too much control.
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So, chance meeting at a Christmas party with a garden centre Said right, you need to meet these guys.
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They've got a garden centre, they know you from your cricketing days.
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Garden centre said, right, you need to meet these guys.
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They've got a garden centre, they, they know you from your cricketing days and they're willing to put Hoggy's Grill School at the garden centre.
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So we said, right, let's go for it.
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And we we had maybe a year of finding the barbecue school and we opened up in 2020, just in time to shut up.
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Oh yeah, that's that must have been a pretty stressful time uh, it was, and when we went to the garden center, it was a nursery.
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They sold plants, they had a small cafe, um, and we were at the back of the the nursery.
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We were in a long polytunnel and behind us were fields and then butler water and it was a lovely spot, had a fantastic view, um, but it was just a nursery, just a plant selling nursery, and the garden center invested a lot of money and now I am in a fucker garden center.
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It is really posh.
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They have a, a restaurant called the view, overlooking the water.
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Um, it is lush.
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It is one of the nicest garden centers in in the um in rutland, and it's not the best garden center in nutland.
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Uh, and it is now really posh and I'm stuck on the end.
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But we opened.
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We opened up in then in a um, in a building site, so we opened up just in time for covid.
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Then we had restrictions, then we had the cost of living crisis.
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Then we had a building site.
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People have to go into the hoggy's grill with a hard cut on to get through the building site, to get into hoggy's grill before they'll have to take it off.
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Um, it was.
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So.
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The last three, four years have been deadly because everything's contrived to against us and saying, right then, you're not doing this, um, but we're still here, we're still, we don't owe any money, we're still going and we're really lucky that it's a family business.
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So my wife does all the admin and the hard things, um, like the organization, everything else.
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I rock up and cook and entertain the guests, and our son helps with entertaining the guests and washing.
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So it's a real family affair.
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We've been really lucky that our, our um, our garden center and people that let us there looked after us during covid.
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So if people weren't in we didn't have to pay.
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It wasn't a fixed rent, we only paid some of the people that came in.
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And we decided that we we were going to open a shop, but then we didn't have the capital to put in all the all the stock.
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So we then said, right, we'll open the school until we get the capital to open.
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And we were going to drop ship.
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But drop ship, we have covid and all the big people said, right, we don't want any more stock.
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If it's not on the water, we're not taking any more stock.
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If it's not on the water, we're not taking any more stock.
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So then we had the backlog of you can't get grills in the UK because everybody bought a grill in the start of COVID.
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Then you saw you couldn't drop ship.
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So our business model has split and flipped very, very regularly.
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But luckily we've only got Sarah and I in the company and she tells me what we are doing.
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So it's nice and easy.
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We don't have to go to committees, we don't have to take too long in making decisions.
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We said we weren't going to do outside catering and now outside catering are the things that we do.
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We go out and cater.
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I love outside catering.
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So from what we thought it was going to be to what it actually is now is completely different, but it's a rollercoaster and I've loved every minute of it.
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I suppose that's part of an agile business nowadays, isn't it as well, being able to kind of pivot to do different things.
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But it just sounds like and for people watching this on perhaps youtube rather than listening, but you can definitely see, just when you're talking about it, the passion that that comes through, even though all of the things that you've had to do during the last few years of, like you said, covid cost of living, all those things, you're still smiling when you're talking to us about it yeah, um, we had an amazing day yesterday with andrew peace wines and we had influence here then and just, we do kids eat free burger classes and pizza classes, and it's just the enjoyment of people that come to the grill that don't normally cook, they don't cook inside, um, in the kitchen and they come and you're getting prepping food, you get them cooking food and you get them eating it and when they taste it and go, wow, this is amazing, and they say thank you so much.
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Well, I've done nothing.
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All I've done is shout at you.
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I mean, I'm just told you to watch from scratch, cook everything from scratch, and to hear people say do you know what?
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This is the best food that they're not not just that they've cooked, but they've eaten and it.
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It brings a smile to my face and it's that, that whole ethos of knowing where your food's coming from, what's in your food and you cooking your food, and the enjoyment we've had people come to the grill and that are strangers and have organized holidays together before they've left.
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I'm thinking, well, that is the power of food in general.
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But sitting out, sitting around preparing food, cooking over a real fire, there's something neanderthalic about it.
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There's something really nice about just cooking good food or fires and people come together and have a fantastic time it must have been so fun to plan out the cooking space of the school where you even start.
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Oh, you think we planned it, but thinking about you've got us all wrong thinking about what I want people cooking, on what I want to be teaching, on how many of them do I want what's the setup going to look like?
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All of that must have been something I mean I know I would love doing that yeah, so.
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So again, everything was organic.
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Um, because we we did it on a shoestring, um, we we have to speak nicely to some barbecue companies and said you know, we want to use your equipment.
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But what, what can we have?
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Um, and it's gone from maybe two or three grills and two, we've got a myriad of different grills now.
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Um, I'm a big fan of kj.
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Um, we use a lot of comado joe and masterbuilt.
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We've got tragers, we've got somerset grills, we've got offset smokers, we've got pks, we've got fire pits.
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Um, you name it, we seem to have it.
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Um, but we always seem to.
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But people always seem to come back to these sort of like ceramic way of cooking and the kjs and the versatility of kjs.
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And I mean we, the day yesterday we were cooking yorkshire pud and people say you can't cook Yorkshire puddings on a grill.
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I said well, I'm from Yorkshire, where there's will, there's a way he can take the man out of Yorkshire, but not Yorkshire out of the man.
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So we were making Yorkshire puddings and sirloin steaks with a bit of chimichurri sauce and some canapes.
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Just to open people's eyes and people going wow, yorkshire puddings on a grill, you can bake cakes on a grill, you can do anything on a grill, and do you?
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Do you find that a lot of people that are coming to the school, uh, are complete novices when it comes to barbecue?
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Or do you get quite a good range of people that perhaps have a grill and they've delved into a little bit more?
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Or to some people that, like me, that have got about 10 and just immerse themselves into it all the time?
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so I go everything, every spectrum.
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You get people that don't even know how to cut up an onion, um, to people that have 10 grills um, with the 10 grills.
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It's lovely to just bounce ideas off people and say have you tried this, have you done that?
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um, I did this the other day and that worked really well.
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Have you dropped a little bit of hickory on that?
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So there's so many different things that you learn off each other, and I think that is the fantastic thing about the barbecue community.
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Everybody's really friendly.
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Everybody is so free with their information.
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Everybody just wants to eat great food and pass the joy on of smoking, open fire cooking and grilling out alfresco.
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So you mentioned, obviously, about the kids' eat-free classes that you've done around burgers and pizzas.
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I think you've kind of been doing that across the summer, haven't you?
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Yes, in the summer holidays and that in itself must be quite rewarding, just kind of trying to get the next generation into A being able to cook and be more independent, but actually understanding how cooking over fire works and actually it's not a scary thing at all.
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Yeah, just be in charge of your own destiny, because, I say right, it doesn't matter what your mum and dad like.
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This is about what you're eating.
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You're cooking it, you're making it, you're eating it, so don't come in with any free ideas.
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We've had kids put maple syrup on their burgers and in their burgers Not for me, but the kids love it.
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We always had people sugaring sugaring their burgers, but eating it.
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Um, I'm not a fan um, but I wouldn't I wouldn't have said you know what, let's try maple syrup on this burger.
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But the kids.
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If the kids are smiling, if the kids are loving it, if the kids say I cannot wait to make burgers again, then that's half the the job done people, to get kids interactive in what they want to eat, how they're eating, what flavors are actually going into their food, giving them the opportunity to cook for themselves.
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We've had little eight-year-olds that cook for the family and say I made a spag bowl last night.
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It melts my heart that you get the next generation actually wanting to cook for other people.
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I don't know why.
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I think it stems about from seeing my son feed for the first time.
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I saw him feed for the first time and I was in bits.
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I love being a feeder, I love giving people food and seeing the smiles on their faces and nine times out of ten I'm done with it.
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Done with eating.
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I I don't eat.
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I just love people enjoying their own food and having the opportunity to make decent food on a grill.
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But in fact I don't even care if it's on a grill.
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I just like people enjoying decent food and cooking their own food and knowing where that food's come from.
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On that point, the meat that you use in the school.
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Where do you source that from, and is that similar to what you're cooking with at home, when you're cooking for yourself as well?
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Yeah, so we use Gary Simpson, our simpson's butchers.
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Um.
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He's award winning.
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He's twice won britain's best butcher shop.
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Um he's local.
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He's in stanford, which is 10-15 minutes away from the grill school, so I can whatsapp him the day before when I've forgotten everything I've forgotten xyz or you know, sometimes I've forgotten X, y, z, or you know, sometimes I'm organized for the day, but it's so versatile.
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He's got so many different products and ranges and the meat that we get he knows exactly where it's from, he knows exactly where it's been eaten, you know where it was slaughtered, you know how long he's had it.
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It comes to us in the fridge and it's always fresh because it's so local um and after.
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But if you use great products to start with, that's half the battle.
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It's harder to to mess up.
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Um great products, um uh.
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But equally, I've had, I have had the odd, I've forgotten everything.
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I need to go to Aldi on the way in and I've cooked things from Aldi and the clients have said you know what?
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This is the best things we've eaten.
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I said, well, I've got a confession.
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They're from Aldi.
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And for our fish and our seafood and our scallops and our prawns we use a fish-rich company from Nottingham which, again, is nice and close.
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I know we're nowhere near the sea, um, in fact, uh, leicester is the middle of the country that's furthest away from the sea.
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Um, but to have people going to to grooms and bidocks in the morning and bringing you fresh fish and there's so many times we're halfway through the morning and we're having lemon sole or we're having place for lunch and it's not there yet and they come in and they bring it in from the van, fresh from the van, and say you know fresh this, Just bring some dogs in here and get fresh from that.
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So yeah, it's really nice.
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We've got some really good suppliers.
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They've looked after those really well and I love having local relationships.
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I think that's definitely key, isn't it?
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Do you find the social element you mentioned, obviously back in South, when you were living in South Africa, and you're having the brides, the social element, beer or not, just kind of getting together around?
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There's not a lot about grilling.
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It's almost illegal to grill without a beer or a drop of wine in your hand.
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Yes, I think it's unwritten, but pretty much it is a rating.
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No, no, I was just going to say about the social aspect.
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Yeah, and do you try and bring us?
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How does that kind of work, with perhaps a group of strangers that are coming together, how do you kind of get them to, like you said, book holidays by the end of it, what does it experience really?
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yeah, so I am, I hate rules, I hate regulations I hate being told what to do and I hate rules.
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I hate regulations.
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I hate being told what to do.
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I like fun, I like interaction, I like being in charge of what I'm doing.
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So, although there are guidelines and saying right, then, this is what we're eating, like a salsa, right, I'm not going to tell you how to make a salsa.
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If you want a spicy salsa we've got some chilies I suggest you put two chilies in.
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If you don't like chilies, don't put chilies in.
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If you like coriander, let's zest it out with coriander.
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If you don't like coriander, you think it tastes as soft.
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We've got some parsley.
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We've got some chives.
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Don't put coriander and to have people.
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This is about your taste buds, not my taste buds.
00:19:28.554 --> 00:19:37.989
This isn't about me dictating to you how you should have a meal, how, uh, what you're putting in your, in your food.
00:19:37.989 --> 00:19:42.968
We'll give you the main main ingredients and then I'll tell you if you like it.
00:19:42.968 --> 00:19:44.951
You'll stay medium rare.
00:19:44.951 --> 00:19:45.993
It's three minutes.
00:19:45.993 --> 00:19:49.126
If you like it, or if you like it very serious, you let me do it.
00:19:49.126 --> 00:19:49.910
So if you like it over that, you it.
00:19:49.910 --> 00:19:51.915
If you like it over that, you can leave.
00:19:51.915 --> 00:19:54.511
There's all.
00:19:54.553 --> 00:19:55.183
I try and make it fun.
00:19:55.183 --> 00:19:56.248
I try and like.
00:19:56.248 --> 00:20:02.496
It's not a stuffy atmosphere, it is about enjoyment.
00:20:02.496 --> 00:20:06.810
It is, and food does that to people and I don't.
00:20:06.810 --> 00:20:16.612
If I went to a course I would hate to watch somebody else cook, because I'd go to a course and I'd want to be hands-on, I'd want to be doing the cooking.
00:20:16.612 --> 00:20:21.912
I wouldn't want to watch them cook and then go home try and replicate that.
00:20:21.912 --> 00:20:23.654
So everything is.
00:20:23.654 --> 00:20:32.711
We I'll make the start up, so I make little nibbles to start with, so they'll come in at 10 o'clock they'll have a nibble that we've already, we've already made.
00:20:32.711 --> 00:20:41.598
Then I don't prep, I don't touch, I do absolutely bugger all except for make their experience hopefully fun, enjoyable.
00:20:41.598 --> 00:20:44.904
And they do all the prep, all the cooking and all the eating.
00:20:45.545 --> 00:20:47.192
Well, maybe, I need some food afterwards.
00:20:47.192 --> 00:20:54.416
But it is a hands-on.
00:20:54.416 --> 00:21:00.211
You, the guests, do all the work, they do all the prep, they do all the cooking, they do all the eating.
00:21:00.211 --> 00:21:12.574
We just supply the, the soft drinks, the teas, the coffees, the, the alcohol and just try and get everybody to have a fantastic time and an enjoyable experience.
00:21:13.214 --> 00:21:18.240
You're right, the hands-on technique, from learning and cooking yourself.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:27.736
You pick up so much more from that because if you're just watching someone for half an hour, an hour, you're not getting the feel, the touch, the way that meat bends, and when it's cooking and things you know.
00:21:27.736 --> 00:21:28.728
All of that you're not.
00:21:28.728 --> 00:21:33.308
You're not getting through when you develop.
00:21:33.308 --> 00:21:37.012
I know no planning, as I said, but as you're learning and teaching, is it going on?
00:21:37.012 --> 00:21:40.294
Is your technique and how you're teaching people changing over time?
00:21:41.625 --> 00:21:48.317
Yeah, obviously, if you don't progress, if you don't improve, you're standing still.
00:21:48.317 --> 00:22:02.336
When you go back to sport and everything else and coaching, the everything progresses through the thing, you're always learning, you're always picking up little things, you're always developing your skills and you don't want to be stagnant.
00:22:02.336 --> 00:22:06.869
Um, you, you're trying little things every time you're changing the menu.
00:22:06.869 --> 00:22:13.374
Um, and it's you'll, you'll pick up little things from on this, from customers said you, I could have done that better.
00:22:13.374 --> 00:22:30.417
And next week you implement that and I've got a 17-year-old son who does a lot of the classes, who's not backwards in coming forwards, and he will tell me you know, this is what we should be doing, we should be doing and suggestive hint it.
00:22:30.417 --> 00:22:36.872
And you listen to your clients, you listen to how they've enjoyed it and you want to improve every time.
00:22:36.872 --> 00:22:47.349
I'm not an arrogant little bar humble that says right, this is the only thing that we're doing, this is how we're doing it and this is always going to be how we do things.
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