Episode 9 - Culinary Demons

Dan - Host: 0:03

Welcome to another episode of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast. This week we're lucky enough to have at Juergen from a culinary demons with us a fantastic Instagram page with lots of LIFO cooking, which is something we've not really discussed before on this podcast. Also a huge thank you to Tom Cortes from ferns Island perches for doing the cut section and educating us further on some of the different cuts and things that we can get from our butcher. Welcome to another episode of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast and we are joined today by Juergen How are you today? Thank you so much for joining us.

Jurgen - Culinary Demon: 0:40

Yeah, very good. Very good. How about you guys? Oh, good.

Dan - Host: 0:43

Yes, very good. Thank you very much

Owen - Host: 0:44

another sunny day we've had so it's great day to get the barbecue out. And

Unknown: 0:48

Spencer Spencer the outside is oh by the fire. So that's a good day my books.

Owen - Host: 0:54

If only everyday could be like that,

Dan - Host: 0:55

for anyone who may have not heard of you, John, introduce yourself, your background and what you do in regards to the barbecue.

Jurgen - Culinary Demon: 1:03

So my name is Juergen. I live in Ireland, originally from the Netherlands. On Instagram. I'm known as culinary demons. My wife is a photographer and under Chef. Well, I've been following cooking for about I don't know how long but professionally over 16 years. Wow. Because all of it at some point for like, six years. But now going back into it professionally. So. So yeah,

Dan - Host: 1:27

we were really excited planning for this episode, because one of the things we haven't really discussed with anyone is proper live fire cooking. And even kind of from the two of us, we are amateur barbecue cooks. Not that we'd like to admit it but factually. So we wouldn't even know where to start. How did you originally start that journey?

Unknown: 1:49

I started a journey when I turned 18. And I was already working in chippers and restaurants. And when I was 18. I went to a what's called a gaucho restaurants was like a salsa style restaurant and also opened fire cocaine. It was just a massive metal structure with walls around it. And that's how I cook done. So that's why I got the bug. And the chef I worked for he was heavily influenced by Francis mama. And he asked us to do new stuff every week. So take a one chef and say I want you to cook something new on the fire today. Doesn't matter what it feels doesn't feel. I wanted to cook something new and you know, see what you can do. So you always got like one day of playing around with the fire and recipes. And there was just amazing. That's why I got really hooked on the open fire cooking.

Dan - Host: 2:39

It must have been so inspiring to see that many people around you also trying different things and hitting certain notes and occasionally failing. But I really can't imagine what that must have been like for someone starting the journey as well to see that happening live in front of them. How quickly did you learn in that situation?

Unknown: 2:59

The first week was very hard. Everything I've been I've been barbecuing since like 1415 because the Netherlands is quite big of Indonesian barbecue style things we do and sausages and hamburgers. But then when I came into the kitchen, a foreign kitchen and there was no on an off button. It's on or it's off is like they're supposedly fighters to fight fire decide. And then as you if you knew how to dance around and go around, it's it's the best way of cooking in my opinion. For me, it's more difficult not to cook indoors and outdoors. And then of course people worked with like the head chef was he was just amazing. He was like a fire genie to me he would he would do anything on the bar and grill on the fire. From desserts to drinks. Like anything you could do he would do. So it was it was a big inspiration, of course of working with sure young chefs, there's some, you know, some older chefs and do left a mark on the cooking I do amazing experience. And you've

Owen - Host: 3:59

said that you've gone back into into the kind of professional cooking now. So you still continuing with the live fire cooking now.

Unknown: 4:06

Yeah, exactly. So I so what happened is I was working there, I did a lot of restaurants. Then I moved to Ireland, and I decided to go to get out of the restaurant business. Because I wanted to have a life and drink. I did about three years and I went back into the restaurant business. No open fire business, though, was just more cooking in a wine bar and making up menus kind of stuff, which was very nice. But again, it wasn't really doing it for me. So I did it for about three years, I would say maybe less than two years, two years. And then I went into sales for an IT company. Completely different. Completely different. Easy magic easy times. And literally since this week, I'll be stopping with it and I'll be going back into the barbecue world. 24/7 Wow. What I'll be doing is myself my wife, so my wife is the photographer, serious photography, we sign the papers for our own company is going to be photography, marketing, private dining and events. So what we're doing here in Ireland is we'll be doing some events and private dining. We're going to go to shops that sell certain produce, for example, a Spanish shop. We're gonna do some open fire by cooking classes with wine tasting, well, this kind of stuff yet and also be working small bit with savage BBQ and UK. I'll be doing their restaurant sector consultancy. So restaurants are looking for bespoke barbecues. They call me and I'll discuss with them what kind of what what you might be looking for, or maybe I can design something for them that we're looking for. Then I work together with EDS and resorts to plan.

Owen - Host: 5:55

How long have you been part of the savage barbecue team? Is that quite recent? So

Unknown: 5:59

So barbecue, I start like we started talking last year, officially like a part of it in the first January actually. Then we had some issues we'll get indicato of drylands, because of Brexit happening and everything. So we've got the cage over here now. It's been here for two months, I think. And I've been doing bad stuff behind the scenes like thinking about open fire cooking classes. Going to do some events smoke fire festival. We're going to be there as well. Wow. So yeah, it's rolling up quite quite August. In August. Yep. Yep.

Owen - Host: 6:37

Yep. So we'll be there as well. So we're, we're we're actually we're actually based kind of Essex so okay. Right. right on our doorstep.

Unknown: 6:44

You guys there. Go for it. Sir. Yeah,

Dan - Host: 6:48

definitely. Certainly. Well,

Owen - Host: 6:49

I suppose that fire the fire cage that savage barbecue do I suppose it just fits your type of experience. Excellent. And the way you want to cook to its tee which I suppose makes the partnership. So obvious. Yeah. In that respect. So. So for myself and Dan were, I suppose, like he's already said amateur barbecue is but you know, we fundamentally use charcoal, we use wood around smoking. The next thing for me, I've said on the previous episodes that I want to get into offset smoking. So again, using more wood fired, it's a bit more of an art form, I would say and I'm sure someone is an experience, you would probably say the same but for someone that's new to live fire barbecue, and what would be the best tip or advice that you could give to someone from trying it for the first time.

Unknown: 7:39

Try it for the first time. You could do it on any barbecue you want open, fake, okay, you don't need anything special, you can do it on a fairytale you can do it on the floor on anything. My biggest tip would be buy good wood. Don't buy any crappy wood from the supermarket or the gas station. But go for some Namibian Camille Doring like African woods or some oak, something that's really dry. Just make a fire, put a grill on top, let it die, let the fire go down to embers and just have fun. Just put a special chicken on top. Even put sauce isn't up, just just try it out first. But my number one tip would be buy good wood. Because all the wood makes all the difference.

Dan - Host: 8:21

It's fascinating whenever you speak to anybody in different lines of whether it be barbecuing or cooking. Rule number one seems to be Be careful with the equipment you're using. Make sure you've got the right items, whether it be the right meat, whether it be the right word, whether it be the right lump wood or charcoal. It's so important. I think it's something that's overlooked, particularly perhaps in the UK, people might spend loads and loads of money on some of the barbecues that they have. But then they'll go out and they'll pick up the first charcoal they can get hold off or briquettes. So it's yeah, it's interesting to hear that obviously these things can make so much difference. But it's getting people to do that in the first place and go out and stick their neck out. And to do it but what when you're talking about kind of using the right word, what sort of differences in levels of results will you get from getting that choice wrong?

Unknown: 9:17

If you if you have a wrong woods, which is a bit wet, or it's like it could be anything or there's like loads of bark on it, or some bark in some woods is really stinky. And you will have like really thick, white smoke coming off it or just make all the food tastes nasty. Or you have a really crumbly rose, you have no embers from it, it will just burn and it's ashes. So you're looking at really a dense was to look at this kind of stuff. So you're looking at all of words, which is a really good word and it's very you can get it in UK everywhere I think then yeah, like I said before the African woods so Camille Doring more Bollywood. They're very easy to get online as well. You just need four or five logs, set a fire on it. And you're done for the evening, you have a big fire. When the fire goes down, you have all the calls. And you can cook on it for like, three, four hours easily. And then you have like another hour of small heat, which you can do some dessert onto something or make a coffee on it, whatever.

Owen - Host: 10:23

Do you still even if you're doing say low and slow, let's say you were doing a brisket or pork, pork or you know, some short is, you know, beef short ribs, would you still always use Wi Fi? In that respect? Or would you perhaps, you know, go towards more charcoal because of that it has?

Unknown: 10:39

It depends. It depends on the day, how much time I have, how much effort I need to put in. But probably I would use the charcoal I would say yeah, which is charcoal. But if I have to hold day have nothing to do when the kids are busy. I cook on which the whole day. Let me sit by the fire. I put food I have a beer I've made a drink or the tea. And obviously is not a holiday. No worries. Sounds perfect.

Dan - Host: 11:05

Going back a little bit. When you made the move across the island. Was it a little bit of a shock to the system? If you're saying that, you know, barbecue and cooking with fire and things are so big in the Netherlands than moving across the island? Did it feel like a big culture shock coming across?

Unknown: 11:21

Yes, yes. I did my first barbecue at a house in Ireland and people were shocked to like, oh my god, you got a barbecue sauce, sausages, the hamburgers. Typical, you know, Tesco barbecue day. Yeah. So the UK is known for? Of course, we had just scored a lot. But yeah, this is 11 years ago now. And yeah, they were shocked that it puts chicken on sticks and pork neck on sticks. And I was making a peanut sauce to go with it. And they were like shocked. Yeah, they loved it. They loved the olive. Nobody's like, oh, wow, this is disgusting or something. No, they all loved it. But everybody came to this party thinking oh, I'm gonna have sausages and burgers. Worst thing of all was I thought that when I went to an Irish barbecue, they had chicken nuggets on the barbecue. What is this? What was chicken nuggets in a barbecue? But

Dan - Host: 12:15

funnily enough, I've never spoken to own about this or this on the podcast. But um, so my wife is half Dutch. So her family's originally from Beaver week. I'm probably pronouncing that so badly, but not far out of Amsterdam. Oh, yeah. And when we went out there to speak a long time ago now because of current situation and everything. But um, the style of parties compared to what you have in the UK, they start at

like eight 9: 12:44

10pm. And it doesn't stop until like 6am. And like you said they will be eating and cooking and doing everything outside. And so I can I didn't realise they had such a strong tradition in barbecue. But I can definitely see it now that you've talked about it. And hopefully croquettes will come over as well because that's the other thing I love

Unknown: 13:08

to hear, but they're good, but I like to go just go over and buy some frozen ones, you know, but look, we cannot have everything here. Local costs are amazing. I need to find a way to make them on the grill somehow.

Owen - Host: 13:19

So what would you say? You mentioned around 1415 You started to get into barbecue. Is it just that common to kind of start cooking quite young on the barbecue? Is that just part of the culture in the Netherlands or

Unknown: 13:33

so when I was younger, I was a really bad eater. I wanted anything it was Greece back in it I will pretend you cannot eat it. And then I got a lot of because my class there was kids from you know Turkey, Morocco, Suriname, Curacao, Spain, you name it. My whole class was, you know, all full of like different cultures. And I started to see what I was missing out on. I saw I was eating at their family's house. I was eating some Turkish kebabs from the fire. I was eating some Indonesian cetaf from the fire. Some Filipino made some pork on the fire and this you know, I was just looking sitting tasting on enemies at home. So try it on, make a lot of mistakes. Or go my friend's mom but I did wrong to see what's going on. And yeah, it's a culture thing. I do think in the south of the Netherlands. Everybody starts cook at a young age. All our parties are based around food. So you would have a Saturday you start coming to your friend's house the six you have like little tapas things, dinner at eight or nine and then at 11 o'clock 12 o'clock one o'clock you go out but most of it was based on on food so I think in the south fallen to see people young younger age cooking in the North Holland. So it is a bit of a cultural thing. It was

Dan - Host: 14:54

one of the things that oh and and I have talked about before and mentioned is the fact that at least two Last in this local area, it feels like there's not any real restaurants or places that you can go to for barbecue cuisine. I mean, there'll be a lot of burger places, but it's not what we're looking for. And you can't get like the authentic, kind of low and slow, whether it be briskets, whether it be the short ribs, etc. So, again, coming over to Ireland, and being in that sort of career path. Do you feel that's something that hasn't evolved at all? And it's one of the reasons why you've come back to it?

Unknown: 15:33

No, it's coming down. So when I moved over, there was nothing there was a hamburger place and that's it. Down about I think was five years ago, you saw someone to farmers markets, so people go in with big smokers. But then again, all they did mostly hamburgers, or pool pork, which is pre pools already and just hit it up in the day again, so nothing really fresh going on. Which knows see more and more especially in Dublin is you see more open fire restaurants and a live fire cooking, which is great. I think it's an amazing thing that's happening. Let's see happening more. Let's see it happening in more cities around Ireland's not just Dublin. So I live in the south. I live in Cork. And so look, do it private dining. And who knows maybe some points. Restaurant comes out of it. I'm not sure. But yeah, look, we'll see. But we're just gonna be private dining. So it's more experience for everyone. So there'll be like a class as well. So people come over to see what I do. Then I give them a five six to 10 course meal afterwards. Wow.

Owen - Host: 16:42

When you travel the country kind of doing this private dining.

Unknown: 16:45

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So a lot everything up into the van. And then drive around. Whoever hires me, I'll go to and then yeah, we'll do some, we'll do some public events as well. The smaller chefs in Dublin open fire shops, but maybe not have their own barbecue setup like I do. So we do something together. And yeah, looking forward to it to start it's

Owen - Host: 17:09

great. So we've obviously talked a little bit about kind of what where you are in terms of your your journey in barbecue. But what would be your ultimate barbecue meal.

Unknown: 17:20

My my favourite kind of meat is a Mamiya which is the rock till just salt on it nothing else. And then cook it on a metal skewer high over the fire for about 45 minutes to hour and a half depending on the fire. And the outside to Fred is really crispy. Slice it down. Let it rest of course first dividend some tapioca flour, which is a self preserving tradition. And just eat it. That's it. You don't need to give me sauces. And thing and I'm maybe a glass of red wine next to it. I'm very happy man. My easy BBQ meal. My favourite thing to do

Owen - Host: 18:05

nice no sides, no carbs, just

Unknown: 18:09

just one thing is there's also the tapioca flour. It's like little balls. And but the gorgeous back did back then was instead of bringing bread or potatoes do have a big bag of flour. They bring with them the Calico or lamb or whatever, dip it inside, eat it, there was the copper as well. So they have meats and carbs, and whatever herbs and spices deformed around and

Dan - Host: 18:34

I'm really hungry. It's a big being a lad from the valleys in Wales. It's just a completely different culinary experience than anything that I've kind of discussed or seen before. So it's quite fascinating for me. So if that's your perfect one, you mentioned that some of the events and things that you'll be doing, you'll be putting together like 678 courses. How would you build that up? And do you go more and more extreme or do you sit down

Unknown: 19:06

so it depends on on what the customer wants, of course, but if we're looking at a higher class meal, are we looking at all local products so let's say if I go to here in Cork, I'll be looking because large seaside and mountains so I'll be looking for some kind of special lamb so special seafood and I would literally start with grilled a grill salad with some kind of sauces that I make I would make everything on the fires even the sauces then some seafood. I will make some purple potatoes to grow here. Sometimes they go straight into the fire hole pumpkins are cooking ashes. Take about six hours for the groups. And then of course, depending on it really depends on of course because probably like hang a whole lab from across or I would cook a hill Oh target on the board, bring it out, put hay around it put a hair on fire. So it's like a spectacle when it comes out. So you see fire and smoke are full halibut comes out on the table and people just start eating from it. But also the finer things like oysters cooked in a fire, muscles trade on the calls. Your name is like, you can go as crazy or as easy as you wanted.

Dan - Host: 20:24

What's the most crazy

Unknown: 20:26

what's the most crazy I don't know to be honest, but it's the most crazy because I calculated everything I could from from nose to nose to tail. camel hump is something which is not nice at all. I had camel Wow, it's just fat. Doesn't taste nice. It's not like wagyu it's totally different.

Owen - Host: 20:49

How long would you even cook that full?

Unknown: 20:52

Well, I got like a small it was like a small piece somebody gave it to me. It was like a small piece on the secure. Yeah, he cooks for like five minutes. That's it. So it's really Christian also look really good. But when I bite into it, it was like just as nice days like rotten fat as it was a nice.

Owen - Host: 21:09

So that won't be on your menu then

Unknown: 21:10

No, no, no. And also eyeballs don't like eyeballs. That's also another thing I don't put on.

Owen - Host: 21:16

I can't imagine many people will choose it though. To be fair,

Unknown: 21:19

no, I don't think

Owen - Host: 21:21

we've I think we've already alluded to this a little bit about kind of what setup you've already mentioned, you've got a fire cage from from Savage barbecue. And obviously you do a lot with open fire but just talk to us a little bit more about your grill space and kind of what your setup is if there is any more to it or

Unknown: 21:38

so. So of course I have to find a cage to fire cage is a modular cage. So it has a we called the Hotbox which is a like a little oven with a pizza stolen is I mean make a wood fire underneath that. And this would heat up the oven you could put it higher or lower depending what you want to make. You can make pizzas in it, you can reverse car stuff in it, do anything with it. Then on the cage as well I've different grill grates on it. So it could be as high or as low as possible. It could be on legs, it could be hanging from change chains. Then I have blind chairs on it mid process, there's a full Asaro cross on it. So I can know full or half big or full them on it. There's a double rotisserie on it. So we can cook about 14 to 16 chickens in one go ever want. And then of course just the chains and the hooks, I can just hang everything from the top of the cage, vegetables, fish, meat, whatever you want, you can hang from it. So that's my main my main cooking device, the moments that I have two Camaros one large on one small one, which I would use for days I'm really busy. I don't have to mind it. Or I've a really quick cook. That is to be under the roof because it's raining than I used to tomatoes will also have I have a Cypriot barbecue, which is like a rotisserie barbecue. So it has 12 Mini skewers on it and three large skewers, which automatically turn by battery or by power.

Dan - Host: 23:13

Alright, never heard of that before. No I have

Unknown: 23:16

it's called a fuku it's very handy to be able to say you put chalk on the bottom it turned on and everything turns around by itself. It's this easy cheap way to have multiple vertices in your garden would also have done have the waiver master touch with plum charts and everything in it. I have a barbecue fire pit for window cast iron with a tripod on it. And I have a it's literally it's a metal table with side plates around it and sacrifice table. Yeah, do anything on it. So I just make a fire on it and I put dutch ovens on it. The cast iron skillets are small grills you can put on top of it to cook on it. And then I have a lot of small takeaway grills for like the beach and at Rockbox pizza oven which is a lot for making flat breads and pizzas. That's about it I think I think I'm more than enough

Owen - Host: 24:16

I'm quite jealous. I like to think myself is starting to make a collection but you've used as epic

Unknown: 24:22

Yeah, I'm actually I'm actually starting to waver this week so to get some more space in the shed because a lot of wooden shattered doesn't fit anymore. Yeah.

Owen - Host: 24:35

To see more content on our social media channels follow that hashtag meat & Greet BBQ podcast. And for our cooking challenges we set our guests each week hashtag BBQ pink. So how big is the fire cage? Obviously there's what you were just explaining just the sheer amount of what you can. Yeah, cook on that on how you can cook on there. How big is it in terms of sort

Unknown: 24:58

of saw the height? It's One metre 88 high. It's 120. Long. One. It's 60. Deep,

Owen - Host: 25:07

big unit,

Unknown: 25:08

then it's a big unit yet. Yeah, but the thing is because it's modular, you can cook as big or as little as well as you want. Like today, I bet some empanadas. All I like is a smaller grill. I made for like wood fire to burn down. And we had dinner format. And that's it. But one and friends are coming over to have festivals hanging from the roof. On it, I would have the Avanade maybe to make big breads. So yeah, it's it's a it's an amazing grill. Because you can do anything. Why would you want long, slow, hard and fast, medium and mediocre? Whatever you want.

Dan - Host: 25:42

I guess it's experience. But with all the different kind of levels you've got for how you can set up the grades for cooking? How would you even start judging that the temperature is kicking off and where to even start on those different levels? Or is it just experimenting over time?

Unknown: 25:56

I, I put my hand above it, and I count the number. So for example, if I count to five, I started feeling uncomfortable. That's why I put my skewers with Rob tell them I mean your Konya. If it's three seconds, it's for a hard and fast if it's seven seconds is following slow. And then again, it's so modular, so you can just move up and down wherever you want. Just keep an eye on it. That's the thing with open fire, cook meat, keep an eye on it.

Owen - Host: 26:22

How many times have you burned your hand during that? Never

Dan - Host: 26:27

See, if it was me, I'd be like, let's have a look straight. In straight away.

Unknown: 26:35

I did my hands another thing second the first time I got to Kamado I broke my hand so badly because I thought oh look, how we are different is going to be an open it up. And then this heat wave came out. And I go on the horn. Oh, geez. Yeah, that was the first time I used to come out and I was like, Ah, come on. Oh, it's easy, you know.

Dan - Host: 26:55

I'm glad you've said that because I I only have one barbecue currently, but I've just ordered my second which is a monolithic tomato that I've ordered from cubox I can't wait for it to arrive. Sadly, I've got to wait until middle of May because of the situation we're in. But again, even where to start with it. It's such a different piece of kits compared to what I'm used to and be able to do so much more with it the heat insulation so much better. But as soon as you start looking at videos online, they talk about burping it to make sure that you don't get like the blast of heat and everything. I know I'm gonna take off at least two layers of skin. Well.

Unknown: 27:34

What only happened once and to be honest, I put way too much gold on it because I needed something really hot and fast. So I put so much on it. So it was my own fault. Yeah, like for me, I'll be honest, I was a bit cocky when I got to tomato because I look to Kabbalah was like an easy bake oven. You know, for me, maybe it would be a trigger for me. Tomato was like an Easy Bake Off. That's how I looked at it. And then when I got one, I tried it and my first meal was a disaster I can be was a disaster as well, actually. So my first meal was way too hot. So I burned the steak. And then the second meal, I tried to do a low and slow beef ribs. And I thought look, it's gonna be easy. I just did she put it in the oven. While India tomato, I go upstairs to work a bit. And that's it, you know, but all kinds of fluctuations going on the bottom was not burned, but was like really crispy. And it was super dry. And he insight and said, What did I do wrong. Because I want to do an open fire it's always goes up perfect as a guy come on, this must be me, you know. And then after a few times using it to get used to it. And now it's just now was released to us, because my dad always say my daily barbecue because I used the cage as much as possible. But for days, I'm really busy. Just Kamado because you turn it on. Once you know exactly where to put all the hinges and all the doors, it's it's easy to go and it goes in one straight line for hours and hours.

Dan - Host: 29:03

I'm looking forward to having that much more control over the temperature and being able to go much hotter than I currently can. Because my current kettle is like it's not like one of the big brands the heat installations not great in it. You know, if I want to get if I want to try and go as hot as possible, getting above 280 degrees Celsius is almost impossible. Whereas the one on this like 400 degrees, you know, you can be doing like pizzas and stuff on there. Not that I intend to get anywhere near that hotfix I'd be paranoid of like, getting the ceramics or like broken everything like that. But just this idea that it's going to open up completely different things to me, I cannot wait to get my hands on it.

Unknown: 29:43

Exactly. And just experiment with it. It's going to be so much fun. I was going to get real it's like something else. It's fun. Like like that.

Dan - Host: 29:51

Like anyone who's listening to this podcast before knows. I love a barbecue fail. So I need to start cracking those up because you know, I've only got so many that I can reel off at the moment. I need to start getting that level back up, I really can't wait. And that's the one thing with the situation that everyone's in at the moment. It's the time and the chance to experiment. And that's one thing that I've learned from this whole, weird 18 months that we've had so far old or 12 months or whatever, is that everyone has to value their time so much differently than they were. And when things go back to a normality, I'm looking forward to having a normal week and then be able to relax in a completely different way over the weekend and enjoy it differently. But it sounds like you're kind of set up that way anyway.

Unknown: 30:38

Yeah, yeah, that's true. So during during this lockdown, I was working more anyway. Now with being 24/7, in the barbecue business, I. So a lot of things I do is also for marketing. So I would, I would get stuff from people to try out from butchers or from equipment. So my wife is no photographer. So like, for us already, it's like, almost every day is a barbecue day. Just like an Atlantic storm, you cannot do anything. And it's raining sideways, sit inside. But we try to do as much as possible. And I like I grew up being outside most of the time. I know my kids to be outside as well, most the time. I want my kids to be all my kids know how to make a fire. Or my kids know how to butcher an animal. I wanted to do those kind of stuff being outside and prepared for whatever happens outside.

Owen - Host: 31:34

So essentially, is it your got your dream job? That you can just barbecue? Yeah, kinda Yeah. Shortly there must be no the old saying that If you enjoy a job cert, you know, if you enjoy it so much that you never feel like you could go into work. I mean, I can imagine that's how barbecue would feel for me as a full time job.

Unknown: 31:51

Especially at the moment, because the moment I go go anywhere, yeah, so I'm not really cooking for people yet. So for me, it's just not like a very long holiday. But the occasional call at a restaurant to discuss some barbecue details. But I think even when when we first started working again, of course, it's going to be work, but it's something that you love, and it's your company. So it's going to be passionate, it's going to be like amazing and nice. And like I'm gonna like it's gonna be that's gonna be amazing. So I can say, very happy man. I know not gonna make as much money as used to, but I'm gonna be much happier. For sure.

Dan - Host: 32:27

That's the most important thing. And moving forward, then are you going to be looking at like the competition circuit? Of course in like, Ireland and UK, it's nowhere near as big as like America or Australia or anything. But is it something that you're looking to be part of? And do you think you'll even reach out to some of those international places and try and been part of those?

Unknown: 32:47

Nah, no, I mean, a lot of this competition cooks, especially in the US that you see, need to have a specific grill mark on a steak or chicken drumsticks need to be cut in half to make look like perfect little things. For me, it's all about in perfectionism. I want that perfect guy to meet but it tastes very good. I want to have the kind of the butcher that he cannot sell and make something nice out of it. That's my thought about barbecuing I want to have I want to give people stuff that they wouldn't see normally.

Dan - Host: 33:19

And talking about the never having to work and you talk about your your wife is the photographer and calorie demons. looks fantastic. If no one's been on that Instagram account, I'd highly recommend going over there because you will be inspired. That's part of the reason why Oh, in and I reached out to you. Because we've been trying to speak to people that we see something different on their accounts. Getting the the kind of balance right between the stage of the cook and the photography. How long did that take to learn and do consistently?

Unknown: 33:55

We're still learning? No, no, no, it's a lot of times we would just make pictures have to cook itself. Not productive because we have visitors over our friends over. So really depends on what time we have. So the could photos for journey Cook, which I think has run is like amazing. And like a lot of pictures on the fire and the ashes and the smoke. They're phenomenal. They are Yeah. And they take her a few shots and she's done and she works a small bit and that's it. But then the end photo, it will be on the table we will have lightning on it because it's got to be maybe darker right here in a room. So sometimes it takes a bit longer, but then again, we would never have cold food. Sample A Look, it's enough. It works or didn't work we'll see. Well then again, if it's for a customer that needs something specific, then you can work a bit longer on it. Sometimes it may be an hour if you need something specific, but then I would make a second meal To feed us

Owen - Host: 35:02

I think you mentioned a couple of a couple of moments ago about the Kamado Joe might have sort of been too hot the first time and kind of burnt it. One of the things obviously we like to talk about as barbecue fails. Dan Stan, as already mentioned, he has a few to sort of boast about every week but what what would you say your kind of barbecue fails and celebrate it

Unknown: 35:26

there has been planting so while the tomato was one of them that it was very too hot the first time the second time it's it's destroyed my beef ribs. Then Ahmed open fire cooking at a dog wants to spatchcock dog one day on open fire and walk back into the house to do something and it came out and it was like a massive fire like under under bark itself because so much fence went onto the goals. I just caught fire normally I would be closer to it and maybe spray with some water on it or move the duck around but I was in for like two three minutes just missed the window so the whole park was black we still just cook it I just scraped you have to get off so what was the bone side so it's still the breast and the legs are so fine so it was it was fine yet but yeah, that's that's one of those things with open fire cooking you need to keep an eye on it's you can always just walk away.

Dan - Host: 36:23

I am one failed that I couldn't believe I hadn't mentioned yet on on the podcast was when I first got my plancher and I was so excited to use it. I was doing smash burgers. I got a got it up to temperature. Put the burgers through I was amazed at how quick they were. Set them aside and I thought why I'm just gonna toast some buns off on their stick the buns on, walk off, come back and what feels like two seconds black burned things off. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna watch it this time. I'll get it right. I genuinely went through six buttons before I got a toaster. The first time they were like black the second time I was watching it, I still managed to burn it. I don't know. But again, it's all about learning how to use the equipment you're doing. But it's so easy to do you turn your back for two seconds on something like that. And it's just gone. But I got to the point I was like, I've cooked three burgers. I've now got four buns left. If this goes wrong, I'm done. But it's so fun making mistakes as well.

Unknown: 37:32

For mistakes Yeah, just one thing I learned when I was working this go to restaurant, he wanted us to make mistakes. So learn from it. The things that dissolve we will try to make something sweet with savoury. So like cotton candy on the dock on the fire Siva worked, it didn't work, because back then we were just trying stuff. But that's how you find things out. That's always my tip for people who want to start into fire cooking is just experiment. To try it out to a vegetable you would never cook on fire. Try it. See if it works. Chickpeas, aubergine, bananas, plantain, wherever you can find children to fire and see what works. And 910 times it works.

Dan - Host: 38:18

The extra flavour you get from from the woods. And the coals is just so so different. I mean, I finally managed to crack roast potatoes today. Because I have like a method that I use in the oven and they come out absolutely phenomenally every single time and trying to move that across to the barbecue while cooking other things has eluded me, but I know now it's because I've had it nowhere near hot enough when I've been trying to do them and also I haven't been given them the extra time which they need because I've got a fan oven and it never occurred to me that obviously the heat change from going from a fan oven to like a kettle is obviously completely different, so many ideas. But the flavour difference is just out of this world. I mean, I absolutely loved it. My wife was like I think I just prefer potatoes when they don't have that kind of smoked feel to it or like the charcoal flavour. But it does open up the world completely differently. Again, when I did banana, I hate bananas. But I was made a few weeks ago to do one as part of kind of a challenge I was given by one of the people we interviewed. And it was sounds dramatic. It's the first banana I've ever been able to eat fully. I mean, I am

Owen - Host: 39:33

really dramatic.

Dan - Host: 39:36

Everyone has that one thing that is their food Nemesis which they wouldn't go near and the fact that I had something that I almost enjoyed it's for me was just and Steph said they were amazing wife. But it's not just

Unknown: 39:51

Dutch right? Yeah, yeah. So Netherlands it's a typical thing to win the barbecue finishes it true if your bananas on with some alcohol or chocolate you can choose

Dan - Host: 40:01

I went chocolate, I went butter I went brown sugar. I went marshmallows. I wrapped it as doesn't even taste like banana is what? But But you're right, just trying different things is amazing. But oh, it's been very quiet. Have you had any fails recently? No. Perfection in the corner.

Owen - Host: 40:24

A perfect week. Well, that's me pal me all back. I haven't. No, I to be fair, I haven't done anything that I've not done 100 times already, in the last week or so to be honest, I did a stir fry actually cranked out the gas barbecue for the first time in about eight months. So I did a stir fry. And again, that's pretty simple. I did some sausages a few days ago and a smash burger. So yeah, it's pretty, pretty standard week for me. Maybe next week? I'll try try some challenge. Next week. Well, actually, I'm cooking beef cheeks tomorrow for the first time, so I'm going to smoke some beef cheeks. So that could be my face next week if they if they don't go right. Yeah,

Unknown: 41:14

I'm looking forward to them. Nice. Well, I try to do at least once a month. I try to do once a week but at least once a month I try to do something new that I've never done before. Every month and I would maybe involve two kids or but yeah, at least once a month. I want to try something new. So for this month to do thing I want to try is I want to cook a brisket as it be Kenya. Wow. Okay, that's that's something I want to try and see if it

Owen - Host: 41:38

works or not. I'll be interested to know how that

Unknown: 41:41

allows me to go be the worst meal ever. It could be. Oh, is it the worst thing? The worst thing? Worst case scenario, you have to order pizza?

Dan - Host: 41:48

That's yeah, yeah. When you're looking at that brisket that you're going to be cooking with? What what sort of thing we'd be looking for you looking for a big brisket because they're more likely to have more marbling in the actual meat or you're going to go smaller. What Where do you even start with that,

Unknown: 42:04

I would just go into a to the butcher and see what he has. And I want something with a big fat cap on it. Throw myself doesn't have to be marbles. For me. I just want a big fat cap and a piece of meat underneath it. That's it are looking for. And if I need to trim the fat or do myself then we'll see how it goes. I don't know.

Dan - Host: 42:34

So this is the part of the podcast we like to call the cut, where we have a fantastic of butcher on board who's going to talk about great cuts of meat that everyone should go out and try doing something with. So would you like to introduce yourself to everyone listening.

Burnt Island Butcher: 42:48

My name is Tom Cortes. I'm a second generation master butcher based unbuttoned Thailand and faith and Scotland. I took the on a small butcher shop there. And 2016 It was quite ironic I started my trade and a different shop further down the high street many many years ago was my father's shop and he retired mill did different things. But he started again elsewhere and I joined the business again in 2003 at a time but 2015 for a year and now the small shop and burn power and just as a hobby really. And things kind of took off again for us say a year later we won Britain's best new butcher business at the butcher shop of the Year Award stone in London. And you know same have won a few other major awards, including the holy grail award of the Scottish haggis champion. And it's only a small short that we have but punches we above it sweet, you know have a website for haggis which is a bandaid on the bottom tail and haggis. You'll see that there on the World Wide Web and we can deliver that to you next day interview in the UK and we're just about to launch a retail meat website as well Tom cooks quality foods I'm not allowed to say the date of the launch but as a Third of May don't tell anybody and I'm looking forward to that I don't know how that will go before the snowed under will go off my life or working 20 hours a day instead of the usual 18 But

Dan - Host: 44:18

oh when is our sausage specialist he's a big fan of sausage so I'm sure I'm sure he's got lots of questions about that because any barbecue this man does he like sausages is kind of his starter

Owen - Host: 44:31

I think what's not to love about sausages or star meat before the main meat is a bit that I say that?

Unknown: 44:40

Well I think in any any family barbecue you've got to have the staple in the sausage here because kids love them. And you know my favourite on the barbecue just a plain pork sausage you can't get on with that on its own set great flavour if you'd like to ruin it with some tomato sauces or mustard that's up to you. I just liked You know one upon one role or artist or name, their tone and just to jump right into it, we sell hundreds of cables every week of these and particularly and someone will get special requests as well from customers who want to meet specific lens this fall in the special rules that have maybe bought and we do that for them you know, as long as we get a day's notice we could churn them out for them. But you know, trading for sausages.

Owen - Host: 45:23

Yeah, I mean what's not to love to be fair Do you also do a range of different flavours during the

Unknown: 45:30

year baby step two you know that link sausages, pork and beef that the staples in our shop along with it, you know, sliced sausage that we do which is a Scottish delicacy budget in some what we will do is we'll you know every week for the weekend, we'll make a different kind whether it be poking sweet chilli, or pumpkin haggis, which is a big sale as well, boardwalks, the South African national had one South African customer tell me the ball was sauces we make the best of how to say the South Africa. I don't know if there's no smoke on my backside or not back to sell. And I've got a sausage recipe book that's like the yellow pages. And we just walk away through that, you know, make different ones. And you know, and I've done some, you know, some experimental stuff for sausages. And I've always said you know that these things can either be ranged from horrific to the terrific. And everything in between bears as a bit of fun sometimes, you know, and the short course is a member of stuff, come up with a recipe for the weekend or have a budget that, you know, sometimes it's horrible sometimes it's great, so, but it's good fun.

Owen - Host: 46:34

Um, what was the what's the most unusual recipe that someone came up

Unknown: 46:38

with? A port pork and black pudding? Wow.

Owen - Host: 46:43

Yeah. strong flavours.

Unknown: 46:46

Yeah, absolutely. The pork was all I mean, it's individually before you know.

Owen - Host: 46:54

So is it fair to say that they didn't make the actual counter and

Unknown: 46:57

they did a regular what we actually did with that one as fancy as a sausage. So at the time it was it was actually a baker employed who came up with the idea. And he thought well stick it in a port Pacio instead, and likes the one on award that they will squash by championships one of the speciality I wanted with that. So I have made them for a few years and let me make a comeback know that we're mentioning it. Sounds good. Yeah.

Dan - Host: 47:23

I do absolutely love port and black pudding and pork. So why not? Why there's nothing to go wrong.

Owen - Host: 47:29

It's one of the things, although I suppose again, not traditionally related to barbecue, but I saw that you're a haggis champion.

Unknown: 47:39

Yep. Sugar champagne. Yeah. That is the holy grail of awards. And the Scottish meat industry as a one. Everybody wants to bend and sell them when it if you've got well we've got about 600 independent butcher shop, which has businesses in Scotland. Now competition is only run every two years. So you can see how hard that is. Yeah, the last three times. That's been none of either one up. Have one and I've been second. So. Wow. I've got a good track of that. And there's not many people who have you know, I know there's a couple of guys have won it twice on off. And, you know, I've won and I've been fortunate before, but as they won awards that everybody wants to win, because if you say to a few that's coming off a plane, Edinburgh Glasgow airport, can you name me a Scottish drink? They'll see whiskey, probably. And if you said name a traditional Scottish would the chances are they'll see haggis be the Scottish haggis champion is like the accolade. We actually have a website sale in August.

Owen - Host: 48:33

I've only had haggis a couple of times. And so I know obviously I'm no expert, but obviously you clearly are what makes an award winning haggis. What do you have to look out for?

Unknown: 48:47

So I started off with a recipe that was first formulated by my father over 50 years ago. And then, about 10 years ago, I started to muck about with it, because I would never want anything with it was a nice recipe but it didn't stand out. I feel I didn't stand there enemy, albeit the seals are good. And I tried different things with it. And I've got a stage where I felt I had perfected the recipe and you know that was backed up by the recent competition success that we've had. Now. I've tried many haggis through the years, you know from my fellow craft which was in Scotland, and I have to be honest and say that I've never tasted a bad one. And everybody in Scotland every independent craft which thinks that they had haggis is the best. I'm no exception. The difference being that I actually hold the title so I actually have like a nice at the moment. And it's been a good thing for us. We've we've had our guest appearance on the British menu and you know a secret Scotland with Susan Carmen and my hiatus was featured on some of the kitchen tables next year this year. So yes, as being good for us. But again, it's just it's all about the balance of seasonal, you know and the flavour that goes into it. Everybody has a secret recipe. And people have asked me many times over the years, what's in your haggis? And I always say, Well, that's the million pound question. And if you give me a million pounds, I will tell you

Owen - Host: 50:13

I will I actually wasn't going to ask for a full hour, I'm pretty sure you probably won't be able to give us the given.

Unknown: 50:18

There's actually only two people in our company that know the recipe, and that is myself and the production manager. And he's, he knows that recipe under a confidentiality agreement, you know, so he's, he's one of the people, you know, there's a couple of guys in my business to one side of Cairo, maybe step into my shoes. And so you know, that that will pass on them if they take the business over at the back of me. So yeah, hopefully,

Dan - Host: 50:46

Tom, thank you so much for your time again, and we look forward to speaking to you again next time on the cut.

Owen - Host: 51:03

So you mentioned again, sort of towards the beginning that you didn't eat that, well, when you were younger. It seems that you're cooking a lot. Obviously, you're pushing yourself to try new things all the time. Is there anything? Not necessarily a fail as such, but just like the camel, for example, are there things that you've other things that you just, it's just not for me? I won't cook them again?

Unknown: 51:26

The white button mushrooms, I'd never had no, thank you. Why, but gums and jaffa cakes? There's two things. First, no, I can't really think of anything that I wouldn't really eat. These days, I would eat almost anything. I literally made a full turn from eating nothing to eat everything on my way.

Owen - Host: 51:51

Are your children the same? You know, if you've got them into the process of trying to you know everything.

Unknown: 51:56

So we have the eight year old who is you know, without the chips, of course, and chicken nuggets, but you try stuff from time to time sometimes for some of it. But usually the muscle or the crab or totally bad sometimes than the two year old and a one year old. They put everything in their face with the combined oysters. And that's it. So yeah, that's good. Look, I hope they keep going like this. And they grew up, you know, enjoying foods. But we'll see. Look, every kid is different. And because I know, I know chefs who have kids that don't eat anything, we just eat pasta and, you know, piece maybe that's it. So it really depends on the kid. I think the big difference as well as when you get them involved into it. Yeah, yeah. They like the eight year old helps me with the butchering because I bought a lamb or venison few times this winter. And he helped me cutting up one of them. And he loved it and is eating venison burgers and beans and steaks all the time, every time we have to eat.

Owen - Host: 52:55

I think that's a big part of his. And if they feel included, they're more likely to eat it, the more likely to enjoy it. Do your children, I suppose that you're perhaps others or too little buddy? You know, does he get involved in the actual cooking side of things, you know, if you start teaching about the word and how to set it and things,

Unknown: 53:13

yes. And two year olds material, he likes to fire sometimes for me, the eight year old, he helps me out for some time as well. Of course, sometimes I'm still perfectionist and a chef, so sometimes like a way to myself. When I have time when I'm in good moods, then yeah, they definitely helped me out taking the right goods. And then you put a fire to it and do the fire management as well. So they have a hand fan or a bow pipe to keep the fire going. If I'm not around, so, yeah, they did you do have the timestamp with fire, which is great. Great.

Owen - Host: 53:49

So we've we've spoken quite a lot about meat and cooking, I think let's go into the drink. Okay side of things, and what we're drinking. Before we start, I just want to give an update we were talking with will from Wills Grill shack a few episodes ago. And we spent quite a long time talking about beer machines, and you know, draft machines. And I was very jealous of both will and Dan who have got these amazing beer machines. Just want to say I am like a kid at Christmas because yesterday I've got the email they're back in stock and I've got a beer machine come in next week. Lucky you gratulate it will join the five months, five months I've been waiting for this so

Dan - Host: 54:30

it'll change your life. It'll change your waistline as well. Like I got mine for my 30th birthday three years ago. And like you'd be surprised how quickly you can get through a keg that holds 11 points if you're that way inclined. I think the weekend of my birthday I managed to get through like two or three kegs in one go and I was like this is gonna be expensive. And then you slowly get back into your normal state of mind. But if you have a beer pump in your kitchen, it's so easy to finish work or if you're watching something, it's a break. Just walk in and pour yourself another point. So, so easy and it's very, very fun. But I guarantee it'll take you probably six months to learn the balance and your waistline will not thank you for it at all.

Owen - Host: 55:18

I'm not bothered about the waistline to be fair, I just want to so join if you haven't joined tell us about what you're what you're drinking tonight. And also well drink around barbecue.

Unknown: 55:29

So there's there's many different drinks our drink around the barbecue it will be any ice cold beer or talking about snowmobiles, no, not nothing fancy. If it's like a really hard day, otherwise I would drink red wines, red strong wines. expanish wines are more back or something. What else do I drink sometimes? I really like to Belgium. Special beers we call it so like the trop and Carmeli. So something we love, love, love, love.

Dan - Host: 55:58

Trump is so so

Unknown: 55:59

good. It's so good. So good. But like when we lived in Holland we used to because I was living close to the Belgian border to a drive over to a drive to have licence. Put crates in the back end up like a few years per bottle and that's it. And it's like 10 euros per bottle you're like Oh, cool. I was I look this price up here. So yeah, so So ice cold beer could be still Ottawa, it could be Corona. If I'm drinking if I do like a daytime drinking, you know sitting by the fire, and I read wines of course. And then after dinner like Spanish herbal cure to settle this topic and relax a bit. And then that's it. And the non alcoholic drinks will be are recently started to Matej drinking again to the Portuguese Portuguese and saying the Argentinian tea from the woman cup. Which is very nice. And especially when you're on fire. It's gives you a little bit of a boost and that quenches your thirst. I'm not a big storage drinker. I don't like soda at all. But yeah, like a big water drinker and just bottled beer. So unfortunate draft for me.

Dan - Host: 57:10

There's always time there's always time to do that.

Unknown: 57:13

I'll turn to my wife maybe we have to wait again just an hour. So all the grills and barbecues is curious. No, I don't think I can fit more in here

Owen - Host: 57:26

about your damn What are you drinking.

Dan - Host: 57:27

So from the machine that Owens mentioned I've gotten more normal for me, I've got a whole garden on the go. Which I which I really really enjoy and because of the machine three degrees absolutely perfect, which I love. Give a bit of lemon in there. I don't at the moment I tend to go for Orange though if I'm doing it personally put an orange in there if I'm going to do it. I've been trying to say to Owen because the machine one of the reasons that I wanted the machine so pleased I got it for my birthday. Those years ago was I'm a big fan of those Belgian beers and it's more of those types that are available on the machine. The more and more of the kind of British traditional loggers are starting to come through but they're the European versions. So the stellar that are in could order for examples very different from the stuff you get off the shelf here to stronger percentage and different but it means that I can get access to beers like Jupiler which you normally can't source very easily in the UK which is amazing beer I absolutely favourite

Unknown: 58:30

go to beer think but you can try this. You can't

Dan - Host: 58:33

you have to get that as a K going. It's so good. I can't recommend that enough. But what are you what are you drinking on?

Owen - Host: 58:42

So I normally go for craft beers as as I've pretty much had every single episodes because I'm in the middle of it. Sorry, I'm in between my flavour Lee subscription coming. And the new beer machine coming. My typical session beer when I have a barbecue and I do my daytime drinking is just cause like, just a simple, you know, fairly low alcohol. Easy to drink. Yeah, so that's what I've got. That's what I'll call it tonight. But actually funnily enough, we don't actually talk much about the soft drink side of things and what then what we get into is generally the alcohol but some I've got into and you mentioned tea a couple of times and I'm normally a kind of PG Tips, lots of milk show the tea bag, you know we could you like but I'd say what I've been getting into recently is ginger tea. Really enjoying ginger tea at the moment?

Unknown: 59:37

Yeah, yeah, we're doing a lot of rooibos tea from South Africa, and the Argentinian tea, and then some mint and ginger tea. That's our drink most of time. We don't really drink Irish tea or UK tea. no milk, no sugar. What kinda helps you that way? You know you're told me

Owen - Host: 59:58

Have you not had your coffee too? don't normally do an Irish Coffee

Dan - Host: 1:00:02

I have I've already got through it. So it was a weird one. So I'm the current bottle of whiskey that I've got open at the moment is a 15 year, Glenlivet a sherry cask, which I normally would just have, by itself with with ice. But I literally just finished the other bottle of whiskey I had open my the pokes blended whiskey that I had, because I also had one of them with with coke CO is have three drinks per episode. But having an Irish Coffee with a sherry cast single malt is very strange. It's not what you'd expect. I can't say that I didn't enjoy it. But it was very different from a standard thing, the extra sweetness I was not expecting. And a part of me is thinking I've got a love Freud that I have on special occasions at the moment, a 10 year that we had for our 10 year. My wife got me for our 10 year wedding anniversary, but it's so PT, I cannot imagine what that would be like adding it to anything else. And so far I've stayed away from x, it feels a bit like blaspheming against that sort of level of whiskey. But I am going to have to try it in coffee. Yeah, exactly. But I don't know what peated coffee tastes like. If anyone else does

Unknown: 1:01:23

this, you're not sure. I don't like whiskey at all. I like I live literally a five minute drive from the Jameson factory I can see from my house. Oh, yeah. Of course when I drink money most younger mixing it with code on everything. I would drink it but I'm not, you know, discouraged. riscos was not all No, just give me run or the herbal cures from Spain. I'm happy to go here dark rum. Yep. Dark old rum. Lovely confines not really big fan to spice from can be too sweet sometimes, but aged wrong for a barrel. Yeah, I love it.

Dan - Host: 1:02:01

There's a whole world of alcohol out there, which I need to try more. And the reason I got into whiskey was because people kept telling me that it tasted amazing. And when I first tried it, I was like, I don't know why I can't understand it. And then I started trying different whiskies and then I hit something I liked. And the more that I drank the more I started appreciating the flavours I didn't originally understand. But I think it's that way with any cuisine, as well. The first time you try it, you don't quite comprehend what you're having. And something like a whiskey or even a rum a good rum is such a flavour explosion. If you're not ready for it, it can completely warp what that type of drink is for you. And it's the same with experimenting with foods. That's half the fun, right? You've had two things that shouldn't work. And it will be a flavour explosion whether you like it or not. You want to try to

Unknown: 1:02:52

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And that's why I always keep saying like, keep experimenting the other day I made some was looking oysters and anchovy Nasir Chavi what are called sardines and I bought some melted lamb fat on it, but it worked. It was amazing. So good. But I have this thing it's called the flambeaux do it's like a cast iron cone we should put into the fire and it gets like red hot and I draw a piece of fat in there and it starts flaming and you know flames everywhere and and dripping coming out of the bottom. The drip is on top of the meat which are eating it's just something unbelievable I didn't think laughable work but it was

Owen - Host: 1:03:34

so good. Your back garden must be like a it's almost a soccer theatre these fires and the smokes and

Unknown: 1:03:42

yeah, I always had to move everything down below because we have a two level garden I had everything by the house close to the house because we have the roof here. But yeah, we got some complaints from the neighbours but ashes so I had to move down everything but yeah, it's still it's it's always it's always fun to be here because you smoke sparks fire. You name it this here

Owen - Host: 1:04:05

should be some fireworks going off and you've got the complete set. Yeah,

Unknown: 1:04:08

exactly. Exactly.

Dan - Host: 1:04:11

I've got a little experiment plan so a few episodes ago. I can't be who it was. We were talking to it might remember but we discussed maple syrup as like something that goes surprisingly well with beef. And I haven't really experimented that much with I did a beef short rib last weekend that was first short rib that I'd cooked and the barbecue gods were looking in my favour because it was phenomenal. It was so good. It's still held on to the bone but you can pretty much cut it with a spoon if you wanted to. It was fantastic. But the spritz that I used for it had maple syrup in I don't know if that's what kind of intensified some of the flavours. So either tomorrow or during the week I've bought some ribeyes with a beautiful piece of fruit in them. And I'm going to use maple syrup on them but I haven't decided To what extent partners tempted to basically paint them in maple syrup. And just see the difference that makes or did you have you do use maple syrup much is it's a play we've played with

Unknown: 1:05:14

I use maple syrup once a day she was for it was Brian Qualls with a maple syrup. aioli was a sweet aioli with maple syrup worked really well, but putting milk on the meat itself. I think maybe for stills I used it, but not for grilling on a barbecue direct.

Dan - Host: 1:05:32

I'm a little bit scared that if I get it wrong, because of the how much heat I'm going to use, if I'm going to be cooking it fast, the kind of carmelization that if I put on too early, it's going to have I don't know, we'll see. But like you said, part of the fun is experimenting, right? Yeah, you

Unknown: 1:05:46

can also just use it on the top. So you have both sides are grilled. Then just if you don't start to do move it back on the grill again, just put on the top of a bit, not a drip down on fire. And then take it off.

Dan - Host: 1:05:59

I was also considering quite often when I'm resting I'll put a big knob of butter on top. So I was thinking do I just put maple syrup on then? Yeah, as its resting and see see what effect that has but I'm looking forward to reporting back because that could be a barbecue fail.

Unknown: 1:06:15

We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see.

Owen - Host: 1:06:21

To see more content on our social media channels follow that hashtag meat & Greet BBQ podcast. And for our cooking challenges. We sell guests each week. Hashtag barbecue being so one of the things we like to talk about, we call it a condiment corner. So again, we've had sent a stage on the meat we've talked about drink what about the kind of things that go with it? So are you a big do you kind of make everything you sell for you?

Unknown: 1:06:49

Kind of so I buy premade ropes I think you're ready every guest mentioned it angers annoying I love that they're very good ropes the rules not amazing, I think yeah. But but most of the time I use a salt. Just salt. Salt as my big one so I have a really good salt we have more than salt fuel cell have Georgian salt of names, all the salts that are old, I think find your kitchen. But yeah, the salt is to use the most. And for sauces I make most resource myself except for hot sauces. I didn't want to put time when I used to do it but I wouldn't put time anymore into fermenting and much time and too much space in the house. So I get some amazing hot sauces from the guys in the UK. One of them is duck sauces. It's just the flavours he has during saying that it would be Thai flavour or and he uses ingredients that you've never seen out sauces so there's something really good but if you look at the things I made myself will be chimichurri sauces. stuff added. Go to Mayo, rose to commodity tamales like appointment mispronouncing it but it said is Georgia and sour sauce is made from sour plums. And it goes so well with barbecued meat. Like Georgia has a really big barbecue tradition. And when you have those fatty pieces of meat and a sour sauce, you just dip it in. It's just it's amazing. For duck that sounds like dog Borg for beef. I think we sometimes buy it sometimes we make it ourselves when we make it ourselves here we use because you can't get solid blobs here. So use Bramley apples, no more plums. It makes it which works. But it's amazing. So yeah, so this the fire could salsas so I throw everything onto the Emperor straightaway, peppers, onions, spring onions, tomatoes, burn everything. Does black on the outside put into a box to let it sweat a bit. And as peel off, most of the charred bits just blended up are in the pestle and mortar. And that's it bit of salt. Maybe a bit of chilli sauce in there. It's just Yeah. Simple foods. put some thought into it.

Owen - Host: 1:09:08

Do you actually cook it all indoors?

Unknown: 1:09:10

I don't I don't know I cook indoors as well. But mostly it will be outdoors.

Dan - Host: 1:09:17

How many knives do you have?

Unknown: 1:09:20

And it's check on the kitchen counter. I can I can count as and then I have no few more in the so I think I have about 20 knives.

Dan - Host: 1:09:30

Wow. Is this the reason I asked that it sounds like a random question is we've spoken to a few chefs on here. But also I've spoken to a few chefs in the past and I find that either they have like literally an army of knives that they can call on. Or they have one or two favourite knives that they swear by and they seem to do 90 to 100% of their cooking with just those blades. Because it always fascinates me kind of the thought process behind that and also what people like yourself Look for it in a good knife.

Unknown: 1:10:01

So the one I use the most is a chef's knife. It's Miyabi Japanese chef knife. It's why use negative design. It's a nice knife. It's this feels nice in the hand, it's nicely weighted. It's balanced, easy to sharpen. It's a knife it's a as a lifetime warranty, because I chipped one day, I went back to the shop, and he gave me a brand new one, without asking what I did. I know that that's what I use the most. But then I have all kinds of bony nice when I'm butchering steak knives, I have sushi knives, very nice bread knives, wherever you want. I've all those knives, all of them. And I use them maybe 10% of the time. But yeah, but what I'm looking for a knife is, is a practical, it doesn't have too much maintenance. Because I have one knives. Well, it's a custom knife, but there's a lot of maintenance to it. So I don't use it that often. The warranty hold feels in their hand. And yeah, look, if it's easy to handle, just I prefer a knife, and might cost a bit more than Victorian dogs. But then again, if you have a lifetime warranty, and you get a new one straightaway, I do

Dan - Host: 1:11:15

something that we do every week, and we ask our guests to participate in. And I'm quite excited to see what your reaction will be to this because the amount of experimenting that you do yourself is BBQ bingo. So we have a pre loaded wheel that we spin for our guests. And whatever comes up, we asked you to cook and then also to share your findings as it were on Instagram using the hashtag barbecue bingo, and also tagging us in and we'll further promote it. One of the things that I don't think we've really touched upon would be your signature dish, what would be in your opinion, your signature dish,

Unknown: 1:11:52

I think already to most is a Salvatierra. So it's like beef rib Skok cut lengthwise. Think read almost every week, because it's easy, simple. And I have a family of the kids love knowing on the bones. Love to fat. It's one of the things we would eat. Yeah, at least once every two weeks for sure.

Dan - Host: 1:12:15

Now, it would interest me if that comes up. But it sounds like that will be a bit of a busman's holiday for Cuba. We'll see what comes up before we even look at the wheel. Is there anything that could potentially be on there that you'd be like, No, I don't touch

Unknown: 1:12:32

over No, I I could do anything. I see haggis. To get here in Ireland, but I'll try. One maybe that's been Baldwin probably.

Dan - Host: 1:12:44

Well, if there's nothing else that you'd like to add in, I think it might be time to spin the wheel.

Owen - Host: 1:12:49

Yep, let's go for it. Oh, brilliant.

Unknown: 1:12:59

All right, I guess.

Dan - Host: 1:13:02

Sometimes the wheel has a story it wants to tell. And tonight apparently.

Unknown: 1:13:08

Okay. I'll find a way. I'll make it myself. I find a dealer here. But

Owen - Host: 1:13:13

actually, so we've got a new section on the podcast called the cut. And we're working with Tom quartz who's a master butcher from Scotland and he's actually the current haggis champion. Oh, he actually sends his haggis out nationwide. See, we can see if it goes to Ireland, but he's currently got the title of the best haggis, so Okay, try it. I'll send you his details. But

Unknown: 1:13:39

yeah, if he can get his stuff perfect, but otherwise, they'll all find a way to make something here.

Owen - Host: 1:13:43

Is it something you like haggis Oh, yeah, I like

Unknown: 1:13:46

awful food. So eggs is something like as well I guess putting Nigeria as though we had Persia which is like Spanish pudding for for dinner. So

Dan - Host: 1:13:57

I think some of the best flavours are in those types of things as well like okay, black puddings, a very different version of what you've talked about, but it's quite often overlooked by people by absolutely love what it brings, particularly the mix. One of the things we've talked before about the fact that I quite often do like a black pudding burger, but it's it's so good. And also the extra fat it brings to different items is amazing. When I was

Unknown: 1:14:23

working the pizzeria we were doing black pudding and Apple pizzas. Oh, that's

Dan - Host: 1:14:28

amazing ice.

Unknown: 1:14:29

It was a really good like it was really really good.

Dan - Host: 1:14:32

What cheese would would you use with that?

Unknown: 1:14:34

You're used as commodity smokes commodities was almost like a cheese it looks like an instrument. It's like big ball of a small ball on top. It's a bit of a drier mozzarella.

Dan - Host: 1:14:46

One thing you don't see much in the UK which I struggled to get hold off but I enjoy cooking with his raclette and I always think raclette cheese you rarely ever see it on a pizza, but the amount of flavour and pull you get from it. It feels like it would work well. Do you see it more on like in Europe

Unknown: 1:15:04

and the continent? On the continent? Yes. So we the pizzeria that we had in our hometown when I was younger I had a potato or that pizza. So this really rock that dish on a pizza, which is amazing. But then again you will get so full and so full of cheese. It was like a shared pizza you wouldn't eat by yourself because you'll be gone. work led to something we see a lot in Netherlands and Belgium and France so

Dan - Host: 1:15:29

I love it I could literally just sit somewhere with someone holding that big wheel just melting more and more on and just absolutely loving it but you don't really see much in the UK funnily enough,

Unknown: 1:15:40

and then in London is locked because he's got to travel to London lots for work as their direct slot every market has one guys anyway to reply to you.

Dan - Host: 1:15:49

We need to go to London more than when locked out. It's not that far away from us so we can spend more time that

Owen - Host: 1:15:55

I'm still dreaming this black pudding Apple pizza.

Unknown: 1:15:59

Yeah, it's really good. Like we pre cooked apples a bit and burger as well sort of more soft. It was just Yeah, it was very good. Friends.

Owen - Host: 1:16:07

That's my next one. I'm doing that next week.

Unknown: 1:16:10

For sure. This year experiment for a week. Perfect.

Owen - Host: 1:16:12

That is definitely my experiment for the week.

Dan - Host: 1:16:15

So someone that who you said pizzeria making home dough for pizzas. Where should people start because you find all sorts of different recipes online that tell you 400 different things. And then you start looking deeper into it and they talking about low and slow. Yeah, kind of resting and getting the yeast activating over a few days rather than like an hour. To get like a professional level dough. Where do people even start,

Unknown: 1:16:42

so you need to get a good flour, type or flour, or use use Caputo blue or red depending on what you have in your shop. It's a very simple recipe today use us which is the one I got from a restaurant. It's a one kilo of flour, 650 grammes of lukewarm water, these previews, teaspoon of salt, two tablespoons of oil. That's it. No sugar, nothing. And you can ferment it for eight hours, six hours, 12 hours, 48 hours depending on what kind of flavour profile you want. But it's that easy. Just leave in a warm place, make a double punch it down, and then let it rise again. And then you make the balls. That's it. Let's balls rise again. bended out. And if you haven't, would have topics you want.

Owen - Host: 1:17:32

So everything that you've spoken about today, and I think what we can see from your Instagram account is simplicity done well. It seems that you know, you always let the meat do the Talk or not the meat necessarily the fish that the main. There's no airs and thrills with all these different things. It's just simple cooking,

Unknown: 1:17:51

Simple Cooking. Yeah, simple cooking, but it could be something different behind it. So it could be like draped fish, something you wouldn't see often. But it gives more flavour to it. It could be dried grains meat, it could be dry aged beef, it could be vegetables, or hanging over the fire for 12 hours you name it. It's all super simple but cooked in an interesting way or prepared an interesting way. And that's why I tried to show as well that you don't need the most expensive cut of an animal or a fish. You don't always have to now salmon you can have a white fish and make an amazing meal out of it. That's why I try to bring overalls as all the dining I want to do it's going to be not the most expensive biscuits you can find is going to be romped. Dylan's going to be I don't know maybe if the brisket because it works out is going to basically be Kenya it's going to be leg of lamb. It's gonna be wherever a fish they're catching that. I'm not going to ask for specific fishermen to check what's there and take it with me. So yeah, I think I think the simplicity is most of its salt fire and food. That's it

Dan - Host: 1:18:57

looking back at kind of your career but also cooking in your personal life. Is there one particular cook that you did that changed your scope when everything I thought like this is what I'm going to do full time or actually I'm going to change my current working career and so I'm going to go back to doing this was there one cook that made you go on there?

Unknown: 1:19:19

I think it's going to be like my my favourite kind of meeting my minea so that Robitaille it was on a skewer just sold about a taste of like more people need to taste this. You can't get this anywhere in a restaurant. Why don't I do it? And that's also what we're going to do on the smoke and fire festival there's going to be a demonstration piece of meat because I'm just something so simple and so primal and such a good flavour on it such a beefy flavour and so yeah, that was that was my turnover cook I think to go back into the business.

Owen - Host: 1:19:53

We're very much looking for we'll be queuing up to that. You will see us waving going please let us

Dan - Host: 1:19:59

know I cannot wait it feels like they've organised this specifically for us. Because like I live in Ipswich, which is about like sort of 18 miles away from Colchester. Okay, but for Oh in it's literally going to be a 20 minute walk from his house. Oh wow. It's like in Castle Park in Colchester, and it felt like they went Do you know what these guys have been cooking? Like properly on barbecue or myself anyway with an Instagram account since August last year. Let's bring a festival for them so they can go and try what real barbecue tastes. And we're gonna be there the whole weekend and we can't wait what else do you have planned for festival?

Unknown: 1:20:40

Well, that festival will also have planned so we're also going to the saddle theatre cuts which the long before of Scott lengthways. We're thinking of doing a book next week as well. We're going to make it to commodity sauce to Georgia sauce to go with it. We're thinking about doing some kind of fish juice depending on what's what's available. Of course, the issue for me is because I'm here in Ireland, so I need to check. But what you can deliver for me, you know, because if the fish is not good, I'm sending it back on my dad as well if it's not good, goodbye.

Dan - Host: 1:21:16

I'll tell you what, then mercy so really famous around Colchester. Mercy is a little island but it's really famous for its seafood. And we like Colchester actually has an oyster festival every year that they have that it's based around the Mercy oysters. So if you're thinking about local produce, and some of the stuff that's meant to be kind of some of the best in the UK, if you haven't heard of that, haven't seen it, I'd recommend looking into like mercy Island oysters and seeing if you can get anything, even if it's not the oysters but something from that area go across.

Unknown: 1:21:47

Like like mussels are rated better. Yeah. Good. Thank you all. Um, if you can write it down to me later afterwards. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I will definitely look into that. Yeah, because what we're gonna do, so we're gonna be part of the barbecue alley. So yeah, so it's only six brands. We've got to be there. And it's going to be a demonstration alley with Marcus Baldwin is going to be there presenting. And he's gonna be gonna be giving food away to people. So it's not like we're not there as vendors with ours. demonstration. So it's going to be very interesting. See what's going to happen? And is it there's gonna be some big names in the brands. It's, I think, what I'm heard of, I think it's WebVR Treyger Ostello savage BBQ. And the rest. I don't know yet. I think they're still keeping something secret. So let's see. That's good. We're looking forward to there. That's gonna be so nice, too. Because I've met so many people from the UK Bravia community online and do all like a lot of people are going to come to this festival so I'm going to be busy cooking and shaking hands and dragging people I think it's gonna be weekend, that's for sure.

Owen - Host: 1:22:51

Yes, I think we've I think we said this a couple of times that we just can't wait to actually meet a lot of people obviously you know, you interact through Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, whatever it may be liking commenting in private messaging, all that type of thing but actually we've just not had that opportunity have we for for such a long time to actually go out have a beer? Enjoy some cooking together and I think yeah, I think this smoking five festivals going to be quite welcome for a lot of people. Yes, it just all get together in one place and actually just make a weekend of it.

Unknown: 1:23:24

Yeah, I'm always looking for as well because myself and as the owner of savage barbecue we we talk a lot every day on the phone video calls phone calls. We're doing like everything we're talking. And we never met each other yet face to face. Like we're talking about for like, how many months? Four months, five months? We're working together already. Same with the Baltic family. I've never met anyone yet. It's just you know, phone calls, video calls, WhatsApp groups, you know, so I'm really looking forward to meet everyone I work with as well. It's gonna be it's gonna be very nice.

Dan - Host: 1:23:56

So Instagram, obviously culinary demons is very popular and it allows you to showcase everything you're doing because of how busy you are. Do you get much time to actually go through Instagram yourself? And if so, what sort of things that you're looking at for inspiration what would make you follow a page

Unknown: 1:24:15

if I see people experimenting I don't I don't mind if you have a professional photography or not. But I don't if I see just hamburgers 1000s of hamburgers on your on your page and the old saying like man I've only seen people experimenting no matter if it's going to be a professional chef or someone who just started last week. I followed him I saw follow accounts that I follow and I love the content but they're doing they just just try something new every day. They get a first grill and they're trying stuff out. The sometimes they asked me for tips as well which I love. And we are looking at this love concept follow it could be from the left 20,000 followers to 10 followers. So if you're making it By if you see you're experimenting with stuff, that's what makes me interesting that you're trying stuff not scared of failing.

Dan - Host: 1:25:06

So that's half the fun of doing. Exactly. I like to think that's what seen a big explosion at the moment in kind of the UK barbecue and also islands kind of barbecue cultures, the fact that people have had more time during the strange period, and it's allowed people to experiment and find out that actually, it's very, very fun to do that. And rewarding when you hit the right notes. And long may it continue.

Unknown: 1:25:31

And these are two things too, I follow a lot of Brazilian accounts, Argentinian gowns, Dodger cards, you see a lot of changes there as well, at the moment because of lockdown. They went even a step higher than they were before already. And bazooka is catching UK and Ireland are catching up fast, which is good to see. And yeah, look, it's gonna be amazing. And I think, also for restaurant businesses, I see a lot more restaurants are interested in open fire cooking, or requesting for fire cages. So it's going to be it's going to be very interesting. next five years, it's gonna be super interesting in the restaurant business to see what's gonna happen with open fire cooking.

Owen - Host: 1:26:10

Right? So I suppose we've asked you lots of questions. And is there anything that you want to ask us? So?

Unknown: 1:26:19

Well, I don't have a question for you. But I want to I want you guys to start, we want you guys to do a monthly experiment to try to see if you guys just try something, something else. If it's just even putting a mentor in under barbecue or whatever. There's a diff. I always tell people just try something new. And just relax. You guys will definitely ask from you guys. So I have no questions for you. Because I love the podcasts. I love your pages as well. Looking forward to meet you guys.

Dan - Host: 1:26:46

Yes, it's gonna be exciting that that that smoke of fire festival is going to be taking so many boxes and it's going to feel like a huge pressure release for so many people. And the fact there's food involved, I can't think of much better.

Owen - Host: 1:27:00

Exactly, exactly. But in answer to your request, absolutely. Yeah, we're definitely up for that. Good. Do you want to kind of give, give yourself another plug and tell everyone where to find you in terms of your private dining your social media? Yeah,

Unknown: 1:27:17

so so you can find my social media under culinary demons. I'm a chef and my wife run as a photographer. You can also find her on Sirius dot photo. It's her Instagram. And of course, we have to say as well, savage BBQ which is savage double underscore barbecue, on Instagram. And hopefully soon we'll come up with all the events and everything will be on our social media websites. Great.

Owen - Host: 1:27:43

It was an absolute pleasure to meet you. And thanks very much for coming on the podcast.

Unknown: 1:27:47

Thank you so much. It was a it was a fun time.

Dan - Host: 1:27:49

And hopefully it's gonna be three, four months. So we'll see you in the flesh.

Unknown: 1:27:53

I know, right? Because we're gonna have a dream together,

Dan - Host: 1:27:56

of course and we will have plenty of drinks together. So

Unknown: 1:28:00

I think it's gonna be a very rough weekend.

Owen - Host: 1:28:05

And we really look forward to seeing what you gonna do with haggis our mutual

Dan - Host: 1:28:08

mutual thank you so much for your time. It's lovely to speak to you. Thank you guys.

Owen - Host: 1:28:13

Cheers that concludes another episode of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast thanks to Juergen from culinary demons for joining us. You can find his Instagram account at calorie demons and as he said he'll be joining savage BBQ at the smoking fire festival and cultural stay in August. If there's anything that you want us to talk about the meat & Greet BBQ podcast please get in touch through our social media channels at meat & Greet BBQ podcast or email us at meat & Greet BBQ podcast@gmail.com So Juergen got haggis for this week's barbecue bingo challenge. Find out what he does by following the hashtag hashtag barbecue bingo. also like to thank Tom Cortes from Bern Island butchers for his expertise and he'll be back joining us next week. Anything that we do with the show is under the hashtag meat & Greet BBQ podcast and if you love the show, please leave a review especially through Apple podcasts as that helps us get found and do more things with the podcast. Until next week. Keep on grilling