BBQ Tom

Dan - Host: 0:00

Today's episode of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast is brought to you by iOS outdoor kitchens. They are the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists Hello welcome to another episode of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast today we are talking to barbecue Tom it's just me as Oh in cannot make it. But don't we've got so much to talk about from events that he's at barbecue wars, being at sizzle Fest and just so much great stuff and also the work he does with the rusty barbecue company. But Tom can go through all that with us so not much further ado, here's Tom. Hi, Tom. Thank you so much for joining me today on the meat & Greet BBQ podcast. Just me Of course today oh in can't make it but you know, that's good for us really. But for the listeners, introduce yourself. Tell everyone who you are and what you're all about.

BBQ Tom: 1:00

Okay, so no thanks for having me. First of all, I've been a fan like I do listen to a lot of podcasts it happens to be that a lot of people a lot of your guests to people I kind of know which is weird, isn't it you know, you hear people on like a medium that you speak to in everyday life. So my name's Tom Davis or barbecue Tom UK on Instagram. I'm a fairly average 35 year old family man from Northampton shear. And I occasionally like cooking outside. That's kind of it really, like I've described myself as a bit of a you know, a grilling knob. So I don't I don't pretend to know everything. I don't pretend to be, you know, a fantastic chef. Like, you know, a lot of the people who we speak to a lot, you know, like, Dan over the street, Surrey or Ross BBQ who lives just up the road from me. I don't pretend to have that background, but what I do is try and cook foods that I like to eat and not cook food for you know, because you see a lot of people cooking foods specifically to take pictures of it. And that's just not my doesn't be my bag. You know, I mean, like, because it's a I cook food I like to eat. That's my that's my jam. Right? And secondly, I I can't afford to cook two dinners every night. So if I if I could get a burger and take your picture for Instagram, I got an ambition to eventually put it in my face not have it be a picture, you know, I mean,

Dan - Host: 2:25

yeah, and not not spending 45 minutes to an hour taking photos of it. So it's cold by the time you actually eventually get to eat it either. That's the other side of it. Yeah, I'm

Unknown: 2:34

fairplay to people to do that if that's if that's your, if that's your jam, and I know we're going to talk about the barbecue community side of things. But generally, it's a very friendly very positive kind of sort of corner of the internet. So if that if that's what you want to do, and you know, we've talked about different barbecues and talk about you know, pellet grills, charcoal grills, gas, pizza, ovens, water, you know, to be honest, if you know, if you're standing outside having a beer, making some food with your mates, welcome to the party. So we tend not to kind of criticize or judge each other. So if that's what you want to do, then great. Go on your journey. It's just not for me.

Dan - Host: 3:12

No, and it comes across on your Instagram profile if people got the chance if you're not driving, pause this now and get up your Instagram and have a look fine. Fine, Bob utami Okay. And it's very authentic to the point as well you can see some of the barbecue wars and stuff that you've done with cork you can't do that and not be authentic frankly. It was that when you started doing this and being as part of the community was that a specific choice that you made? Or did it just that that's just who you are now naturally

Unknown: 3:44

I think it definitely was a choice that I made it definitely definitely was I think that so for me, the big trigger was the first lockdown when I was starting to kind of work from home it was bit of an odd time for me because I started a new job on the 15th of March 2020 Wow. So it's literally that Monday when the government decided we were going to go into into lockdown as a precaution. And it was meant to be like six to eight weeks right? So I I've been at a job and I had worked for three months notice and when asked the place before that right so I got there and you know go into the new office shake everyone's hand get your laptop whatever you know Hi, Tom really glad you've joined the team so happy to have you here eccentric cetera right now go home. I will see you in a bit. And I literally have worked for that company for just over a year. I spent four hours total in the office,

Dan - Host: 4:43

Jesus, that must be such a system that must be like stress inducing and you didn't get the chance to kind of build those relationships. So very difficult time but for other reasons as well, obviously, but just getting your head around that was being crazy.

Unknown: 4:59

Yes. It was it was a, it was a stressful time I, again, like I say all the time, I can only speak to my experience, I don't pretend to go on anyone else's journey for them. You know, mine is enough, frankly, I'll be honest and say that retrospectively locked down was absolutely brilliant for me and my family. It came at exactly the right time, you know, we were very lucky because I worked all the way through my wife was furloughed, we have one daughter, you know, and I was fortunate that I could have my workspace away from kind of, you know, homeschool, chaos. You know, my wife absolutely threw herself into homeschool, and full credit to Lauren, my wife, but our daughter just came on leaps and bounds in terms of her education at that point. So, for us, it was a very positive experience, but I did feel was a lot of the social stuff that I do, like, you know, going for a beer or playing rugby, or, you know, just just talking to my mates in a unstructured setting. You know, we tried all these limited zoom quizzes, and we had a zoom thing going on. And all that kind of it feels odd criticizing that because I'm talking to you. It's, I just hated it. I hated the structure of it. And so I spent a lot of time on social media. And what I figured out was, I wanted to kind of have a specific place to talk about barbecue and talk about cooking in general. So started to my, my Instagram account started off as Tom cooks. And the idea was that I would take or document what I cooked every day. But then I kind of realized that I don't get excited by fish fingers, chips and beans. Not that I'm never going to eat that again. Right, that's a that's a great meal. Right? I think everybody at some point in their life should have fish fingers, chips and beans for today. But it's not interesting. It's not exciting. It doesn't excite me. And it's not what I want to have a conversation about. So I started taking pictures of food that I cooked outside, and I love barbecue, talk about that, and a bit my journey through barbecue whenever that I started taking taking pictures of that. And what I realized was that as people kind of followed you, and you follow the people, in your case with people, it gives you that network of people who have the same interest as you. Yeah, like, so I cook for my friends, we have beers, and we you know, we watch movies. And that's great. And they they enjoy the food, right? And they asked me about barbecue. And we might talk about, you know, what Rob I'm using or what word I'm using, you know, but by hour to have me explaining about the different types of charcoal and how I like to use them. And you know, the different cooking techniques and where on the grill, the food needs to be and etc, etc, etc. They're at the point where they're going, okay, ticket shut up and feed me. Like, whereas you know, a lot of like yourself, I can kind of find you often say and we've talked about British charcoal for three hours. Yeah. And it's that it's that point of mutual interest where you go, okay, and like, now I've got mates, who I speak to every week, I simply wouldn't have met if it wasn't for if it wasn't for having this silly little Instagram page, I started during lockdown.

Dan - Host: 8:23

I also think it moves on nicely to something that was going to bring up later when we were talking. But it lends nicely towards the cue Together campaign that you guys are putting together and how important that is, as well, because locked down it was difficult for so many people for so many different reasons. Rightly so, of course, I mean, it was it's traumatic experience. And that's without throwing the fact that there was a deadly virus flying around, and it's still out there. But it destroyed people's well being and understanding of what we are as people what our society is. But BBQ changes a lot of that because it's getting your aside, it's cooking with fire, there's something very primal about it. But also, when people were able to come back together, it's quite a celebratory thing. And so encouraging people to get outside be talking more, while also doing barbecue. Almost using it as a hub is a fantastic cause. Yeah,

Unknown: 9:17

I think there was that it's two days or so. But I do remember Christmas 2020 When it was like or you can have six people in your garden sort of thing, and blah, blah. And I really embraced that. And it was odd. It was an odd experience for me because traditionally I'm a bit of a introvert which a lot of people look at me odd when I say because I can kind of you know, I can Instagram Live or I can talk to you and I you know I go to a sizzle fest I'm really gregarious, I'm friendly and and blah, blah, but kind of what I mean by that is that that is me giving energy out to the world and then to kind of get it back I need to spend a bit of time in my own company. So I really brace the idea of okay, well, we have to be in the garden, then I'm going to build a barbecue shack, and we can be dry and I can like the barbecue will be warm, and we can still have good food and share that outside. But I think a lot of people didn't I think that's where like barbecue really came into its own kind of December 2020, maybe less so December 2021. But that kind of having those communist experiences but the outside and you saw it in pubs and stuff as well, where you had the kind of like heated dining pots and stuff as well. And there is something really, I think they'd like to use to your point there is something really primal about being outside next to a fire. And it is it is comforting. I think the other thing from a mental health point of view is I think everybody has their own form of cathartic meditation, where you do the same things the same way, and you find comfort in that and you find calmness in that because if I do, you know step a step B, Step C I'll get step D. So this is the simplest thing. So personality I can use is making yourself a cup of tea. So everybody likes that tea slightly differently. Everybody knows how they like their tea. And if you're really, really lucky, and you've got a great relationship, there's one other person in the world who knows how you like your tea, right? But you know what you're doing, you're going to go and make yourself a cup of tea. You're going to you know, put the milk in first if you're stupid. You know you have your tea bag you know exactly how much water you know exactly I'm sure was put in and then you get some competent yet I think barbecue for me is that you know, I go outside and like my chimney, or no one that calls already I know for hot the barbecue is gonna get I just great, isn't it? It's just misinformed about that. The other thing is, I think that we say kids together as you know, food is the gateway to conversation. That is traditionally what it is, isn't it, you know, if you if you're going to come over and share a meal, we're sharing that experience is much easier to kind of open up and share about your day or how things are going. And if you're standing around, doing something, rather than, you know, sat on a sofa, with your wife asked you to talk about feelings.

Dan - Host: 12:22

Traditionally, if you're looking to engage with someone or something big happened or something important needs to be discussed. What's the first thing you do? Right, we're gonna go on a date, let's go for a meal together. And then you can sit down, you can open up. Oh, it's a birthday, right? We're all gonna go out as a family for a meal together, sit down and chat. We haven't seen anyone for ages. Let's go out for a big family picnic. And families will go out once a year together. But it's that communion of foods. But I truly believe that barbecue really is the only food type. If that's the best word to use, that every single time that a barbecue is happening, people are literally gathering to talk.

Unknown: 13:00

Yeah, exactly. Right. Like, like how many I have childhood memories of like Dad, Dad standing next to the grill, right? You know, on this big old gas, whatever it was, and you get the chicken that your mom has kind of pre cooked from inside, you know, I know exactly what I've heard the outside. It's just Yeah, it's horrible. I got PTSD. But I think that we do this cute together pub nights where we go live on Instagram, and we kind of we have a few beers we talk to each other. And it's supposed to be like, dropping in at the local and being able to say, how are you? And then you know, taking the license to go? Actually, you know, I've had a tough week because what was the what's the thing that British particularly men and you know, I don't mean to belittle or leave out any of our female sisters because they go through tough times, and they can be bloody good at barbecue. But particularly blokes, you know, if you want me to go down to the pub, how are you doing? Fine, how are you grand? Let's play darts. Or let's talk about the football or you know, let's say the pistol in your new haircut, the equal like, whatever. But when do we actually get an honest answer of how are you doing? Oh, actually, I've had a tough week, feeling a bit down like dessert. So I think we're trying to just spread a bit of a bit of love and a bit of kind of, you know, community message of, you know, we stand around, we have some good foods, we have some beer, and then we can feel better for the experience.

Dan - Host: 14:32

So acceptance of one another. I think it's so key and we've got a lot of international listeners as well, which still amazes own an eye but it's true. But classically, even on like an international scale, the British are known as stiff upper lip. Yeah, no emotion whatsoever. Get on with it push through and it backs people into a corner that they don't feel they can talk to each other. You know, it's interesting. Yeah, too. It's so amazing how it's been bred into our psyche but you know, the more that we can talk or the better I think what you guys are doing are amazing. You'll know from listening to other podcast episodes we've talked about mental health so much but to be championing it in such a way in the community is amazing.

Unknown: 15:15

Yeah, I mean I'm proud to be a part of it obviously with my fellow youth together Ambassador So Ross from rusty barbecue company is really the driver behind it myself DOM Cornish carnivore who I know have spoken very openly about about his struggles and mental health on your show. Danny of history three and James from jail butchers. It's always nice to have a butcher as a mate is now I'm discovering best friends.

Dan - Host: 15:41

And the cuts that I can give you as well. If you're not on that point. You must have so many experiments with what you're cooking and cooking with different things. What your favorite cheap cuts

Unknown: 15:55

so, so cheap stuff to cheap stuff specifically that I love to eat. Top Top of the list and it's an obvious one is wings. Oh, my God, do I love wings and I'll tell you why. They're cheap. They're versatile, and they're quick. So it doesn't really matter how you cook them, what you cook them on, whether you're scaring them, whether you're putting them on a rotisserie, whether you're grilling them inside, they can be absolutely like fuckin bangin delicious, at 20 minutes. Right and you can put any sort of sauce, any sort of coating, any sort of you can make them as complicated as you like with toppings and blah, blah. But you know what, like, if you've got a charcoal barbecue, you season them up really nicely. Get the get the grill really hot, cook them quickly, just plain. That's a tree for me like quite quite a lot of lunchtime. I'll just have wings on the grill for myself. Like and that brings up brightens up my workday so much right on the subject of chicken. I know a lot of us are but I am very firmly a thigh man. Right? I like breasts can do one. Like I genuinely wouldn't mind if somebody could genetically engineer a chicken to have two more thighs and no breasts. So I like thighs. Again. They're cheap to cheerful they can be delicious. You get some nice crispy skin we can vote them and stuffed them and they're just like a perfect little pocket to be able to roll back in half stuffing in the middle. You can chuck them up because they you know the meteor this thing moister. Just a nicer

Dan - Host: 17:35

content and experience better contents a different level as well. Exactly.

Unknown: 17:38

My flashlight is flavor talking about that. Pork belly. Yeah. Oh, yes. Thank you very much like an even like pork but I can have any way like you bite in a big slab from the butcher. You can buy it in the little slices from the supermarket. Just like a dice like that is salty fat, I think is what I like. Like that is why I've become

Dan - Host: 18:04

obsessed with pork belly recently. We mentioned it on another episode but we recently did some video shooting with God from aos and we did almost like a Ready Steady Cook type thing where people bought you a bag of food. It was no more than 10 pound I got pork belly. And for some reason I was like okay, I've got pork scratchings here I've got nuts here that's crushed them up to roll the pork belly in there because it strips and then that's cook that down and I also had an apple which I kind of cooked down some soy sauce and some honey to make like a source. Oh my god, that changed my life and I'd never considered something like that before. And yeah, it's so cheap. I mean, the amount of that type of meal that you can bang out for like, four quid you can feed like five people with that it's insane. Or briskets

Unknown: 18:55

I was with them I was with them. Yes, we did that sizzle fest but like like all these chips appointment because for me my kind of entry to barbecue was was against something else I want to come on talk about should have mentioned at the start was the popular part cooking competition that me and Dan was supposed to enter? Yeah, I don't want to tell you about it because of basically I want to throw down under the bus but it'll be it'll be funny like but um, my entry into barbecue was American low and slow. So we went to it it's not on anymore. But grill stock restaurant used to run a festival during the this in was only Manchester wanting Bristol.

Dan - Host: 19:43

I was gonna say I thought it was one in Bristol. What did not go on for a number of years as well.

Unknown: 19:48

Yeah. So 2002 1014 I went so it's a year before so basically one of my best mates it was on Instagram and then Valley P he is a better barbecue than me I think But then most people are so he's not special.

Dan - Host: 20:02

Everyone says that about everyone else. Everyone says that everyone rates themselves so badly. But

Unknown: 20:07

yeah, but then so like it but it's funny because now like when barbecue was got a bit of a got a bit of a following like people were under the impression that I can cook so they started asking me questions about like techniques and how would I cook things. Honestly, I copy and paste the message and I forward it on to Dan urban street theory and then paste that I copy and paste his response and send it back so like some my entry, I want to grill stock and we spent the weekend drinking beer and eating brisket and smoked sausage and pull pork and talking to all the competition barbecue teams about like chicken, ribs or ribs again, how great ribs how cheap the ribs like poor especially belly ribs like St. Louis style ribs or stair as you might know them as they're my preference, like but baby backs are great, but they're a bit little.

Dan - Host: 21:04

You didn't get the meats, the proper meat content on them. Yeah, I

Unknown: 21:08

just like I feel like I think a lot of people's complaints with ribs are the reason to over cook. Which is fair because they're very thin. The margin for success with ribs, I think is quite small because you go from kind of being tough and chewy to being fall off the bone very, very quickly. So you kind of have to, you know, they're an odd cook because you kind of wait around for three or four hours, then you have to act. Yeah, it's like brisket is there. So anyway you know, we eat in that. So I came home and became dived into this kind of YouTube hole of barbecue. But this time, like the UK barbecue scene wasn't didn't really have his own personality. So I know Marcus was about country Woodstock. He was on he was on YouTube, there are a couple of others like DJ BBQ at that point, I think was Christian was working either like with Jamie Oliver on his Jamie Oliver Food Tube as like the barbecue consultant or whatever his title was. So I kind of dove into that. I got a Weber Smokey Mountain, the little, you know, the bullet smoker. Yeah. And that was kind of my intro. But and I was loving life because I could go and buy, go to the butcher buy a you know, bone in pork shoulder for, you know, comparatively very little money. And then that would feed me my wife. Well, she had to the point where she would be sick of pork. And then I do ribs and she'd be sick of ribs. Right? So I'm like, but I think a lot of these like cheaper cuts like the brisket. And you know, a particularly this has happened particularly I think in the last couple years with steak. Like what I would call hanger steak, or an envelope steak that used to be like a like a push of a secret, right? Yeah. But now everyone knows about it. And it's the same with belly pork. It's twice as expensive as it used to be because everybody bloody knows about it.

Dan - Host: 22:56

Well, this is what blew me away and Oh, in sizzle fest when we had that feather blade. Did you have the feather blade? But we were like, never heard of this cut before? What have they done to this beautiful piece of beef? Because it was it was mind blowing. I mean, part of it was the fact that I think the situation that we were in because everyone's in a great mood when they're there. And also how they paid it up in a bun but I've never even heard of this cut. What What even is it?

Unknown: 23:25

Yeah, it's just like, it's interesting.

Dan - Host: 23:28

Having those butchers that you can talk to in that way as a friend must Does he ever say to you have you ever tried this Go Go Glock with this and come back

Unknown: 23:36

100% Likely, you know he kind of call him up. But it is nice to kind of have a budget to be able to speak to and say hey, I've got an idea to cook this what do you think? Or you know, I want to make this this many people what are your thoughts? Like you know, or you know, I've read about this cut online can you get it how would you cook it? What are the differences because you know talking about things like try a tip or you know even steak to a certain degree and lots of YouTube channels that you watch they're based on American produce

Dan - Host: 24:14

so differently British produce

Unknown: 24:17

is great and fantastic quality and flavorful and you know, through ethical supply chains and ethical raising and all that kind of stuff like meat matters. Ollie for me matters. Oh my god that have you had any of his beef?

Dan - Host: 24:32

I haven't. It is

Unknown: 24:35

game changing. Like honestly, if you put your your kind of ex dairy cows right there he then that then greatest. They've had a really long life. The fact is, I swear to god golden. Like you put that meat in your mouth and you kind of go this is what beef is supposed to taste like. It's just outstanding. And, but then you know the differences in how you prepare that versus, you know, for example, in American grain fed brisket and American grain fed tried it. So you have to be a bit conscious of that. And having that knowledge resource in the barbecue community is amazing, isn't it?

Dan - Host: 25:16

Yeah. 100% And people are willing to share. There's not that many communities online, like the barbecue community where you get the odd weird rotten eggs that will annoy people. But I'd say 99% of the people in the barbecue community. They're willing to help. They want to talk to you about what you've done. You think you've done a bad job and they'll be messaging you go, Oh my God, this looks insane. What have you done? How have you done it? And that just boosts everyone, frankly.

Unknown: 25:42

And I think also just being able to reach out to like, I've never reached out to anyone saying, like, that looks great. I'd love to have a go at it. What's your recipe? What's your technique? Blah, blah. I've never had anyone come back and say no, fuck you basically. Yeah. Like, everybody has been so open. And because it recipes of a share, right? What's the recipe? Exactly. It's a communal experience. You know? I think they talked about cheat carts and things I like to cook my new favorite thing is chicken hearts.

Dan - Host: 26:18

Wow. When they did you guys put some together at sizzle fest for memory? Yeah. On the call. Let's does that right on

Unknown: 26:26

the on the big skewers? Yeah. We should be dangerous because you basically like then. So you know, and it is a we ordered a few beers. And then Jesus got nearly died that night. Anyway. We are basically walking around a fire with quite a large sword.

Dan - Host: 26:46

Yeah, with lots of people surrounding around as well. Looking at what you're interested in. Yeah.

Unknown: 26:53

Yeah. Yeah, it was an experience. It was an experience. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it, I think. But

Dan - Host: 26:59

you said there which interested me was I think because, again, I've only really met you so you've had proper conversations in person with Owen, but myself you when we've spoken before you've been in the middle of cooking so like Hi, you're right. Yeah, chat later. And then four or five beers later. We ended up No, yeah, I think but it must be quite it looks like there's a lot of pressure, particularly when you stood next to people like Damn. Yeah, exactly. But there's people throwing him around like I need to concentrate on this. I don't have time to kind of engage until it's on. Do you enjoy it at the time or is it afterwards? I

Unknown: 27:35

do. No, I really do. I do I do I do. I think that there's two things I'll say about that. So this year it says first Marcus Borden country with smoke turned up and he

Dan - Host: 27:48

I saw it I was

Unknown: 27:51

like, just so like like I had an I went like mental and he just kind of tell it He came as a so Marcus came as a punter this year he wasn't isn't scheduled to do any cooking and he didn't like wasn't paid to be there at all. It wasn't scheduled but he just kind of turned up so we talked to Marcus a lot about queue together and he kind of you know, he came live on Instagram with us to talk about his book skewered when that came out and talked about the UK barbecue school. And here's kind of challenges though, because I didn't realize but it was only through COVID that barbecue became his sole source of income. I didn't know that. So all through so like previous to that and this guy's had like you know Amazon Best Selling cookbooks right? And it's an amazing not only an amazing character, not only an amazing chef, but just a great guy around but he had what you were I would describe as a proper job. Right? And it was only through COVID Where you know, unfortunately his work kind of was a bit hit and miss and it was only at that point he thought right I've got to back myself up go hard to do isn't that basically exactly like you know, so obviously it's working out for him and more power to the guy so he turned up central first and he said oh, I've got a brought up a canyon with me. Do you mind if I come in do some cooking with you guys.

Dan - Host: 29:11

I love that. Just I've got some me. I mean, I came here as a punter. I've got me what were there.

Unknown: 29:16

Yeah, I brought some meat and some some Eric Garner and it's a bone marrow with like, fill your boots. So I was there kind of like you know, finding the odd bit for him and you know, moving the steak around on the grill. I was just awesome. It's like me a three years ago would have paid money for this experience.

Dan - Host: 29:34

But people today look at the barbecue school drumming.

Unknown: 29:38

Like I'm kind of sat there you know, cooking with cooking with them. With Marcus and with Dan. And so do I find it stressful? No, I love it. I do a lot I love because I love sharing food. And like I say I like talking about food with people that want to talk about food. Yeah, does that make sense? I've talked about barbecue with people who want to talk about barbecue. So it's a great thing like, you know, if you somewhere like sizzle fest, and you know you're working the grill and you're figuring out your steak, or whatever else, but there are people that who are genuinely interested in what you do.

Dan - Host: 30:14

Yeah, I personally would find it stressful. Oh, and I've spoken a while about doing some catering stuff because we've had a few people ask us to do things. And I've said that oh, and I will support you 100% of the way but I know that I would find that stressful when I cook for other people, even friends and family, I enjoy it but I go into a zone where I feel like I can't even talk to other people while I'm doing it because I don't want I want them to have the best possible experience. So I'm cooking for you. That's the point I want you to enjoy it and I think if it was like paying customers particularly in an environment like sizzle fest that would personally stress me out give me a microphone and get me on that stage like interviewing someone fine no problem but I've done it as part of different jobs in the past and I work for radio station but even having like three people there that I'm that were paying me to cook for them I would find that so stressful. So hats off to you particular markers on my shoulder

Unknown: 31:13

the Imam I'm I don't know my perception of that has changed so I'm exactly the same like I love cricket for people. And I love having people over or you know or seeing people mostly my wife's mates because I have an abrasive personality and don't kind of have very many friends like my my, my best friend one of my best friends described to me as like, having this like three stage friendship basically, it's like I meet you the first time and I'm the nicest guy and then you go through about kind of a six month period of me being like a complete dickhead. But if you get if you get through that six months, I would fucking take a bullet for you.

Dan - Host: 31:54

It's a thing isn't it? Where that also shows to people like are you going to stick around? Are you going to stick around you're gonna stick around I mean, I'm 100% in

Unknown: 32:02

master so my perception for that has changed so I was always at the point that I like people and I would always I am a show off right I like people thinking I'm clever. I like people thinking I'm funny. I like your thing I can cook so if you if you view the missus came around to do that. I wouldn't knock up Bangers and Mash I would knock up something that I think is you're gonna sit there and go wow, I'm really pleased okay. And I have this I don't go out to eat very much. I'm actually going out to a restaurant very excited about on Saturday but we don't go out to eat very much because a lot of restaurants that we go to kind of fall into the category of could do better home. Yeah

Dan - Host: 32:49

my wife's obsessed with Nando's I feel more than 200% on that. I'm like no, no, and you'll enjoy it more and then she does but every time we drive past Nando's she goes. We haven't been to Nando's for like a year. Yeah, there's a reason there's a reason for that. Yeah, I call it the fried chicken me I don't want the chicken that's why

Unknown: 33:08

Yeah, yeah, I must admit. So what is your right if you go to like, go to because I think Nando's as fast food. Can we just agree? It's not it's this isn't a dining experience. Right? If it falls into the category of food, I would rather have takeaway as fast food Nando's is that right? Yeah. On the scale of kind of fast food eateries. Nando's is up there for me. Like if we agree that pizza is probably the best food ever created by human being. I genuinely think any combination of carbs and cheese. I'll take like you can you can be as fancy with your carbon hours as you like you can give me mac and cheese you can give me Iceland pizza the cost 99 P I'm happy Matt Carlson cheese, right? But Nando's is up there for me. I

Dan - Host: 34:02

literally had this conversation yesterday with my wife because we drove past one. And I think if you'd asked me probably for pre pandemic, just before pre pandemic I would said Yeah, I do think it's up yet. But I think so many places had to up their game through the pandemic because people have to reorder from home. Plus, I'm a sucker for an Indian anyway. But you know, I absolutely loved your food so much curry so so much. But I would say that it's one of the one of the best of the cheap a lot of fast foods. So I would say nano is on the cheaper level as well. Sure. I mean,

Unknown: 34:38

I put kind of Indian Indian Chinese pizza like Taiwan or whatever. Like I live in rural Northamptonshire. Those are your options. I put those in a different category of takeaway. Yeah. Because that's that's food that I'm gonna order and they're gonna say, Oh, he's gonna take 45 minutes to an hour. That's fine. I'm not going to refuse on a few days, you know? So anyway, so do I. So I went so I'm good friend and friend of the show, Dan Overstreet has started up his fire class and catering business, so and so if anyone is in need of, so he will do a small table, he will come to your house and do you know, some basically a, you know, Sunday roast for you and your family, whatever you want to do, or he'll cater large events. So when we figured that Dan was going to kind of do that, so a few of us in the barbecue community, we went out and did our food hygiene certificates. So that we could go and help them free of charge, just to you know, because this is his passion, and he's good at it. And we wanted him to succeed, we want to offer that spot. So I did that. And then Dan, actually through three markets, but he got an inquiry about catering event, which was there's going to be the night before somebody's wedding.

Dan - Host: 35:59

I know exactly what this is. I'm excited. You've brought it up, because I was going to bring it up and see if you're okay to talk about it go on.

Unknown: 36:06

So it's going to be so it's going to be essentially, so it's only said finalize here is that this day, and I said may fall over it, no worries. And then he said, right. The customer is Henry Slade. And it's the night before his wedding. So basically we're going to cater for Henry Slade, and about 30 of his closest friends and family.

Dan - Host: 36:30

So Oh, Ian is a huge exodus chiefs fan. And Dan was alluding to this before he was like, just tell me the name to tell me the name of the person. He's like, I can't just in case we accidentally say it on the podcast when we recorded with him before. But as soon as we stop recording, he told us Oh, it almost exploded.

Unknown: 36:47

Yeah. Yeah, we had a few a few little comments like that. But like, I just tell you what, the first thing that came into my mind was, don't fuck up. Yeah, like, if, you know, if you came around to my house, and I burnt dinner and said, You know what, guys? I'd love to buy curry, because I fucked it up. That's fine, isn't it, but you know, and to your point, you know, these people have paid and, you know, they used to kind of, you know, eating good food and blah, blah, whatever else. And they're kind of, I thought I would feel loads of pressure. But I really, really, really didn't, I had a fantastic time. And a lot of that was because, you know, Dan was there and he's a he's a pro and he could, you could he could have done it without me. But you know, I was feeding the fire at work in the grill, and, you know, doing all that kind of stuff, just having a great time producing great food. And the other thing, I think, is that because we're in this community, and because like barbecue is our passion, right? And we put time and energy into it, we have a skewed perception of what like, quote unquote normal food is,

Dan - Host: 38:06

yeah, we can be so upset with something we've put together and blow people's minds. Absolutely.

Unknown: 38:13

So I did we have people over recently. So and then we'd like what six adults and a collection of children. I don't know what the collective noun for children is. But you know, many jangles children and annoys of children is what it should be. No, there's that. There's that very specific noise that a group of excited children make, like nails on a chalkboard. And I associate I associated that noise you know what I mean? Like with like, a birthday party, that swimming pool or a soft play

Dan - Host: 38:47

the stock children laughter using films that theme parks.

Unknown: 38:51

Oh, yeah, that's just creepy. Like I can't hear that and not think of Chucky Cheese. I mean, so I did and I did a what I call the shawarma, their Chicken Kebab, you know, I mean, on the barbecue on the rotisserie and so flat breads and some salads and some, you know, salsa and stuff. And everyone was kind of sat around going, but I just thought like, this is easy food that I can make. It means I haven't got to stand over the grill. I can be involved in conversations. I can hang out with the kids. You know, they can do the flatbreads, and everyone have a great time. But it was it this was low stress. I'm putting no thoughts into it. You're not paying to be here. And they fucking lost their tiny minds. Like, you know, it dawned on me that this isn't how people eat at home.

Dan - Host: 39:39

I think like what I would call a barbecue gateway drug in a way which worked on my wife very well which allowed me to barbecue so much more and it is linked to the Nando's thing you're saying. I worked out very quickly. That Steph thought she loved Perry Perry. She didn't. She loved grilled chicken. Yeah. And knowing my wife was so All right I'm gonna do some G Ross guy was however you want to pronounce it so did the marinade and stuff skewed it up, did it right didn't overcook it and everything cooked a tam, bring it on, even did some like chips on the planter as it as well to put in there with everything. You gave it to her. And she took like two bites, she was like, You're gonna cook this again this weekend for my friends and they're coming over. And you think that was no effort whatsoever. That's just understanding the food that you're playing with. And I tried a bit I was like, in my opinion, I should have probably took about a failure.

Unknown: 40:38

My wife hates that my like my wife hates that. And she will she can assure she know me now but she she will say every time I eat something, my first response is to criticize what what I could have done what I could have done better or that it wasn't quite, you know, the consistency of that source isn't quite what I wanted it to be and I didn't get a proper char on the outside of their steak or you know, whatever. The like, bit like eluded to what you were talking about earlier, like this is like my innate Britishness I find it really difficult to go. You know what, that was great. I've done a fantastic job that

Dan - Host: 41:14

my so hard, so hard to do that.

Unknown: 41:17

I get a lot of support from my wife with barbecue because I've got this weird personality quirk right? Where I can't have a hobby and just do it casually. Once I'm in it Do you know I mean, I can't I can't just I can't just like you know, lights up some some Garrett's charcoal every fortnight and cook some pattern hamburgers, I've got to make it special.

Owen - Host: 41:44

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Dan - Host: 42:09

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Dan - Host: 42:36

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Owen - Host: 42:47

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Dan - Host: 42:52

How often you cooking outside at the moment,

Unknown: 42:56

or the moment, probably twice a week.

Dan - Host: 43:00

I'm finding this it's so difficult at the moment, I think life is catching up with us because of what's happened over the last two years people are exhausted and finding the time particularly when stuff is getting better. I hate the term new normal, so I'm not going to use it. But when we're coming to this new phase of living, it's become that much harder to find the time during the week. I

Unknown: 43:19

think for me, particularly it is where I mean lockdown was just this vacuum period where there was nothing else going on. Right. But we could do it at home. So we did you know, I'll be honest, even this summer, I was probably cooking, you know, three, four times a week outside. But we've just this so I got on record as saying that September, October. And October does contain my wife's birthday, which is like the brief point, September October are the shittiest months of the year. I hate that. Because my wife is a teacher and obviously my daughter's at school. Well, maybe not obviously, but she is at school. So we then you go through summer. And you know we have this this six, seven weeks of you know, there's no alarm clocks, there's no very few kind of organized activities for the kids. You know, I feel that the kids really do need a break from education at that point. So you know, we're doing all the fun stuff even you know, thrifty fun stuff. Like we go into the park we're having picnics as you say like the weather is good. So you know you stay up a bit later and then suddenly September rolls around. My daughter is straight back into a routine and she's got you know, choir after school and gymnastics before school and you know, whatever else she's doing, which is which is great. And I encourage go and go and live your life good. But ultimately, we've got to facilitate that. And my wife goes back to work. And she is an incredibly good, incredibly passionate music teacher. So she's organizing her bands and she's organizing the kids and you know, liaising with law school she deals with and suddenly life becomes about getting to the next thing again. And actually the idea have kind of having to take that 10 minutes extra time to go outside like the barbecue and cook outside becomes insurmountable. The every time I do it, I've so pleased I have like every time so like we do barbecue wars with. So me and Jason called barbecue. So during lockdown. And it's important to know the mean, that's

Dan - Host: 45:26

how I discovered you as well, by the way, so I find out about barbecue.

Unknown: 45:29

So a lot of people, but I think a lot of people like define my personality. By the couple of hours, I spend a week calling Jason at sweat on barbecue also, like it's important to know that me and Jason weren't mates before Instagram. So I literally, here's one of the first people I connected with, on when I had my, you know, I decided I was gonna have a bot on Instagram, barbecue page, barbecue Instagram page, rather, one of the first people I connected with because again, you know, he cooks stuff that he likes to eat, and he likes a beer and he likes you know, hanging out with his family, his friends and cooking barbecue. And that's what he's about. You know, he's not about doing it for doing it for the gram, or, you know, getting endorsements making loads of money. He's just about this is who I am. And you can say what you want about Jason. But he is 100% authentic?

Dan - Host: 46:19

Yeah. Don't there's nothing you can say one thing you can't say about cork, God, you get you get 110% of cork, whether you want it or not.

Unknown: 46:29

Yeah, absolutely. So, like, so we've been you know, we've we kind of said that Bob, he was going to try and be every fortnight or where we can get it in every 10 days or so. But there have been a couple of nights, I'll be honest with you and say where, you know, I finished work and it's fucking freezing or lashing down and blah, blah. And I just I don't want to do it. You know, the idea of going outside and doing that is something that I can't vote to do. But as soon as I do it, I'm so pleased I have Yeah. because I get so much I guess so much out of it. Like I genuinely think me and Jason probably do barbecue wasn't nobody watched.

Dan - Host: 47:13

Just because encourage people at the moment I've done a mini series. It's not something that I originally consciously did. But I've been doing it since 30 minute cooks. And when I say 30 minute cooks, I mean from lighting the chimney. Yep. To serving and just saying that you can do it in half an hour and if you can do it in half an hour that's just as long as using an oven. So you can do barbecue in the winter after work. And if I just gets go I'll do it then then then great and you get you never upset with it never upset you

Unknown: 47:47

100% Right so what I will say to people and the biggest game changers for me in terms of like because again barbecue, it's a bit like golf, isn't it? It can be quite a kit heavy hobby and I think once you kind of you know just start to scratch that itch and you go Why do we like to cook on a Komodo we like to cook on a pellet grill wonder what a rotisserie is like you just kind of sit there and go like and and and and that right but at its base for the two things that changed the game for God give me decent charcoal which I'm extremely passionate about. And actually starter

Dan - Host: 48:24

chimney starters are mind blowing like so. We talked a little bit in the past about or journey into barbecue and ask you about yours in a second. But when I was living with my wife and I bought our first barbecue originally away for a gas it was a Weber Q series the ones that you could move around everywhere. Yeah. Started with that for three, four, maybe five years in our old house and when we moved here particularly we came into lockdown and own and I were talking about barbecue. We used to joke about the fact that I was cooking or an outdoor oven and he was cooking on on a barbecue so I was like okay fine. I'll get a kettle and I didn't go for an expensive kettle it was like a fire mountain it was like 120 pound from Amazon Gob Yeah, but and you move across the charcoal I was thinking God this stuff used to take eight might used to my dark ages to like this. I'll get myself a chimney star six pound game changer. Absolutely changer. fully lit in 10 minutes tops German.

Unknown: 49:25

Yeah, I know hundreds and it was a massive game changer for me. I think that is a huge huge game changer for me in terms of that but also just the charcoal lights with no chemicals. Yeah, and it just like and he's totally even right so even if you're not using so I use charcoal baskets a lot in the Master Touch. Yeah. Beer if not using them you can spread the charcoal out and you know that you know if you pile the charcoal heavier on one side that is where it's going to be hotter. You don't have like this big chemical fire problem where it's not spreading out evenly. So I always say like if I go outside and lighted chimney starter By the time I've come back inside, and I've sorted out, like, maybe I've chopped an onion, or I've sorted out, you know, meat and seasoned it or you know, got it out of marinade or whatever else. By that time, by the time I'm ready to use the barbecue, it's ready to be used. Right? And, you know, so I totally agree that it doesn't need to be. And I think that's where I've probably steered away from. Low and slow a bit. Because I've always said, good food does not need to be complicated. And I have huge respect for you know, any chefs or any people who do this, you know, molecular gastronomy. And, you know, know that, oh, if I put 17 grams of salt on this amount of me that it's going to be absolutely perfect. Go through life, cool. I don't have the intelligence or the skill. I'm going to try and make food as simply as possible to taste as good as possible. And also, the other point I wanted to pick up on was there is an argument that barbecue is better in the winter, because the air is denser. And this might be complete bollocks. But I've sure heard it on a podcast that like if you if the air around your grill is colder, it actually ate the kind of smoky voodoo that happens inside the grill. Does that make any sense?

Dan - Host: 51:22

It doesn't not only that, depending on how you're using your barbecue and how you're set up and everything. The Maillard effect works far more effectively on colder things like cold meats and stuff. Like there's a lot of arguments when people say, put your steak out and leave it to room temperature before you cook it to make sure you get more even cook that actually that's balls. If you're decent, the best possible sear and the Marriott effect to work best. Take us out of the fridge. Some people even talk about ticking out of the freezer. I think that's extreme. But you can definitely out the fridge and on as long as you're cooking to temp and you'll keep an eye on the core temperature. If you put cold meat onto a hot grill or hot coals, you'll get a far better sear.

Unknown: 52:03

Yeah, I think that I think that's another thing that I've just realized that, like, you get people but steak is like a big sticking point in our community, isn't it? Where it's like, you know, if you're gonna cook steak for me, you know, you've got to have this car, you've got to take it out the fridge 30 minutes before you have to do this technique. You have to serve it with this renewable this source or whatever it's like, took off my chest back off.

Dan - Host: 52:35

Like, there is no,

Unknown: 52:36

I know, there is I know how I exactly like Toyo rope. Like if you see something online, that you know, or you see something in a magazine or cookbook, even you know, I grew up with my mom who's a fantastic Cook, who has a library. I exaggerate not a library of Cook, like I think of a cookbook was released. Since I'll be generous and say circa 1991. My mother owns it or hasn't owned it. But yeah, she's got like, the completar where Rick Stein used to do those TV shows where he'd like travel around. She's got like the complete set, right? Almost like

Dan - Host: 53:15

the way through weird weekends, but he'd go somewhere else and do something here, then do something there and do something there that sort of

Unknown: 53:21

exactly like so. I'm thinking if you see somebody say, oh, I want to try that, then try that. And we will have our tried and true methods. Like I always say to people at the barbecue like we all have our memories of our dads burning burgers and sausages or barbecue. Right. So, but that's, I mean, that's what breechblock he was at the time, wasn't it? You know, I'm talking about kind of, you know, mid 90s

Dan - Host: 53:44

My dad's thing was specifically was building them. So I never remember him knocking them down. But I swear almost every summer he'd like right, I'm making a new brick built barbecue, and he just made a little little brick built thing with little metal slots coming out that he'd just buy random grills to put onto the different levels and stuff and it was we never He never ever cooked on a barbecue. He hadn't built in my memory when I was younger. It was always I remember

Unknown: 54:11

my dad going from like, the sublime to the ridiculous. Were like when we're at home. He had a Gas BBQ and would you know, chicken burgers, sausages standard, British fair potato salad. You know, all that all that kind of stuff. Chicken of course cooked inside first for safety, obviously,

Dan - Host: 54:34

obviously, because of those terrifying adverts from Sainsbury's of the sausage that everyone remembers that scares everyone,

Unknown: 54:41

right? And it but even like last year, I was at a barbecue and somebody said, Well, you have to cook chicken inside for like where are my wife cooks? Like I think somebody said somebody said, you know, we have to cook chicken inside. First I said to my wife, it's like we're leaving

Dan - Host: 54:59

this Chicken in front of them, and I'm gonna put it in front of my car as we drove it.

Unknown: 55:08

I say that one time, I say the one time you asked me getting nervous about cooking, right? The one time I was fucking nervous was, I used to do so mean, Komodo Jim did a few lives together. And our idea was to kind of, like get people into barbecuing. So like as a gateway, as you say, our barbecue gateway drug of like, what what is possible to do in November time. So we have this idea where we would do like a staggered cook. So where I and I basically turned out that I was going to spatchcock a chicken live on on Instagram, I say on TV, right TV, and

Dan - Host: 55:50

they call it TV, they call it

Unknown: 55:53

Yes, I'm a TV personality, right? So I was gonna smash some my preferred method. And we all have our method of spatchcocking. Right. And I have fully aware that the more intelligent and safer way to do it is to use a decent pair of kitchen scissors and just sit down either side of the backbone, right? Logically, I know that. I don't do that when I'm at home. I use my knife. Because that's that's how I learned to do it. That's what I always kind of do. You know, you've got a sharp knife. Why not? And that's it. Right? So I was kind of there on Instagram. And I was pointing it out. And I was saying, right, so I never know if this is right. But you know, the pointing bump the chicken I always call that the Parson's nose. Yeah, right, right. So I say you just go go down either side of the passage. And I was literally in my head thinking if there is one time that you are going to slip and slice your hand open or like, screw this up in some on salvageable way. This will be it, which didn't help

Dan - Host: 56:55

of how easy how easy is this? Yeah,

Unknown: 56:58

because because my hand was shaky. So because I was just so worried about it. And then the other thing was, I like had because it was on Instagram. This is such a ridiculous problem. I have my phone between me and the chicken. So I was kind of watching myself through my phone. So what is my life ago? Anyway? No, it's fine. So it was all good. So yeah, that was fun. No, I didn't. I I was much less nervous. Cooking for people than that. I thought I would be sorry. I've got off topic again. No doubt. So my, my memory was so memories, barbecues at home. mediocrity, right, like, and that's what it is right? But it wasn't like I've got fantastic food memories when I was younger with my mom and she made these things. I remember once when she was like when she was showing off. Right she made these like champagne jellies for a dinner party. Did I'm talking about? Yeah, so

Dan - Host: 57:55

she had a sherry bigger than it is very nice. Yes. She had

Unknown: 57:59

a champagne flute and she would manage the gelatin to such a degree that it would this jelly would catch bubbles.

Dan - Host: 58:08

So you almost have like the things going up didn't knew where you could see the bubbles and

Unknown: 58:14

exactly they just blew my tiny mice like this is this is low level witchcraft. You're a witch That's fucking cool. Like, it's so but then it's so my memories of the family holidays when I was a kid was caravan in the south of France. And so you go to the south of France. And I would just be I was it may surprise you to learn I was quite precocious little gas, you know, when I was a kid. So we'll all like all the seafood like you know, fresh oysters and mussels and

Dan - Host: 58:45

Malia free that sort of thing. More free. Yeah. Honestly, when I

Unknown: 58:49

was honestly when I was 567 more fruit for lunch was the best day of my life. But then over there, my dad would have this kind of portable gas barbecue that he took with us and he was cooking like French sausage, that at the time, he couldn't really get anything like that over here. Like where it was really kind of fat heavy and, you know, beef sausage all the time. Or he was doing fresh fish on the barbeque and that I remember being absolutely amazing. And I was like, what if you can make food tastes like that in a caravan? Why not? Why can't you do it in the comfortable four bedroom detached that we live in? I don't understand.

Dan - Host: 59:33

On that point, I think that leads quite well into fails because with the amount of cooking you're doing, there must be times where you have failed to live up to your own expectations as it were, but that's how we learn right and all of us those core cups, but what are some of the more main ones that you remember.

Unknown: 59:51

Okay, so I've got two that you'd like immediately three tomorrow. So on my on my BBQ journey when we lived in art and I kind of lost us before I had the chef and all that kind of stuff so I bought myself similar to you bought myself a kettle BBQ. Yeah. And I'll tell you exactly what it was it was a Jamie Oliver branded kettle BBQ from home base. And I think it was the sum total of 45 quid I remember those.

Dan - Host: 1:00:13

I remember those when they were big because I almost bought one at the time. I still got

Unknown: 1:00:17

it. I still own it. It's under a tarp. I don't think I wouldn't cook on it today, but I'm sure it probably still works. So and I was, you know, getting quite good. Um, you know, it's just me and my wife at the time or my girlfriend at the time. And I was I was getting quite good at kind of, you know, I was doing spatchcock chickens, and I was doing pork chops, and it's, you know, it's doing to tend to lots of time. And you know, just figuring that out. And that again, that was a big game changer. Like, buy a thermometer. And then, you know, a month later I've got three because why haven't I been doing this all my life? You know, how do I know my beats? Medium rare? While the numbers tell me?

Dan - Host: 1:00:57

Yeah. 100% is medium rare. Yeah,

Unknown: 1:01:00

yeah. It's not well, or you've found it. I can't help you. Yeah. Do you ever go Do you ever go to barbecues, other people's houses with a thermometer in your pocket?

Dan - Host: 1:01:12

I never have I've been tempted to mainly because, I mean, I've done it before where I've hired temperature bleach on a meat thermometer thought I've cooked something and gone to save up and cut down the kebab. And there's like pink and I'm like, Oh, well, well, was this a bit more. But then places where you know, they're not the people are doing tempered like I was. I don't, I don't want to be the person who's like, Is this okay, okay, you can eat this way.

Unknown: 1:01:38

Yeah, yeah. And you just kind of sat there and going. Do I want to be but it's the question is, and this is where you call in that. And again, it's an aside. Walk kind of dickheads do I want to be today? Yeah. Because my wife has just come downstairs and given me like, the weirdest look. Choice numbers. I've done it. So sorry, no dial means this. This is this is an audio medium. So my wife is currently she's come downstairs to make my daughter's pack lunch for tomorrow during school. And I have just been able to do that really arrogant husband thing if I've already done that love. No worries. You fucking you sit down.

Dan - Host: 1:02:30

Have a glass of wine and thank me later. Yeah.

Unknown: 1:02:34

So she's got a cold at the moment. So she's been. She's suffering bless her. Anyway. So anyway, so yeah, what kind of data do I want to be today? Right? Yeah. It's either on the dickhead who is just silently judging you. Or, I'm going to take over? Yeah, I can't be the person in the middle who like respectfully helps or gives advice when asked. Like, either it's the Tom show, or not my circus, not my monkeys. You can't have both. Yeah. So why would you fail. So the first one was when I was just getting into barbecue and like my wife, again, she had some friends over because, you know, she's motionless personally. And I said, I'm gonna do you know, whatever it was like pork belly skewers and spatchcock chicken and blah, blah. And one of these people happen to be a vegetarian. So they were really nice. And they said, Look, I'll just bring some veggie sausages, and we can cook them separately. And I said, No, absolutely not. Don't be silly. I 100% happy to cater vegetarians blah, blah. And again, this is only my barbecue journey. So I did like some over Jean and her Lumi skewers and some couscous with like fire roasted pepper and tomato and all that again, that was delicious, right? Because I did it ahead of time. And that was like and all the flavors kind of soak in and I genuinely think that couscous is one of those things that has a bad reputation. So good. I think the other thing is like I love charring veg I love that's the thing now because basically what I'm doing is burning it.

Dan - Host: 1:04:22

Yeah, right. Well, I watched one of your videos where you were doing like a salad and you like Chuck the spring onions on their chocolate broccoli on their over the fire basket and just watch them Yeah, color on them.

Unknown: 1:04:32

Yeah, just charming spring onions is probably my favorite thing to do. Specifically this year I've discovered it so if you get sour cream, and just charge just shy you spring onions like until they're black. Because what you're doing as you're adding charred flavor to sour cream. The other thing is you're slightly cooking the onion. So it just mellows out that I'm not a huge fan of raw onion, because I find it very aggressive on the mouth. Like if I eat a salad with raw spring onion in it, I can't taste anything else. I'm just eating raw onion. So, I like to just just very gently kind of soften the onion. Honestly chop that up and put it on top of anything and your next level of flavor. Like I'll be honest and I we made that Henry Slade and he fucking loves so, so yeah, that was good. So anyway, so I said no, no worries like, Absolutely do not bring any food. You're my guest. I will case if you fuck me. Like, if it could go wrong, it went wrong. So I was like, I was cheering I was cheering these courgettes and that right this cheering and there's just burning, right. And like so I I guess I think the recipe I had at the time he said get them really black. So I was like, I don't really black looks like and then I picked them up with my tongs and they just like crunch like chalk. I was like, but I still thought oh, that's exactly what I want. So I put them in the couscous. Right? And like so then and then I tried to stick the skewers down but I didn't really understand the meat at the time. So I was cooking them for long enough to kind of get the origin cooked but then I turned it over and the honeymoon was either burned or stuck to the grill. Yeah, so oh my god it's just and it was melting everywhere. It's just a fucking nightmare so having picked it up to this this lovely girl and said I will cater for you I'm like everyone else is stood around going oh, this is nice buy chickens nice. And this poor girl was just eating couscous with bits of fucking charcoal in it. So it's the two other ones are my first ever rack of ribs which I did on the kettle BBQ with a wasp pan underneath I overcooked to such a degree that when I picked them up the end fell off that's like it's you know, it's really sinking feelings and I think I think that's I had a real stumble with barbecue though.

Dan - Host: 1:06:58

You're trying to do three to one or were you Was it just

Unknown: 1:07:03

one of the one and only time that I've ever done three to one because i i personally I hate it. I do like ribs don't take five hours.

Dan - Host: 1:07:11

So I I've had various degrees of success with 321 first fish 321 I did absolutely perfect smashed out of the park. I think that's that you're actually cooking to time with three to one you're not cooking to tempt. That's part of the problem. Yeah. And the following one I did was all right. And the last one I did was absolutely it was like one half of them was destroyed. The other half was salvageable. And thankfully, there was enough people that I could cut off the dodgy bit and serve the rest but it put me off doing ribs for a while because it was

Unknown: 1:07:45

the thing with me is because I quite like a dry rib and quite sight I assume I call it Seven Mile Bridge. Again, it's preference but I tend to serve my ribs dry

Dan - Host: 1:07:53

people can sauce and themselves if they want.

Unknown: 1:07:55

That's That's my point. And also, if I'm doing the cooking, you're gonna have it how I like it. If you if you if you don't like it that way, great. But you could just walk off the fuck off on your own house. And so yes, the other thing is like I just put them on smoker or put them on the barbecue and then just cook till ready. Right? And that's what I prefer. So yeah, just I picked them up with the tongs and they just fell off and my heart just went the other failed I had it's barbecues. Barbecue was related. So we're trying to stick at the moment we're sticking to kind of low cost. Family Food.

Dan - Host: 1:08:36

Yeah, pies and stuff I've seen

Unknown: 1:08:39

just like well pies is my fail because and it was in SU Y su surname just completely jumped on my head at Stoneman since Damon, big fan of barbecue wars. And honestly, for a lovely petite lady that Sue is she has got a mouth like a sailor. And don't let anyone tell you. So. So Sue stoven says the challenge of barbecue was when we were doing it every no we're doing it every week and we're running out of things to cook. We said won't wash we cook and she said cook pie. Right? So you're like, Okay, copy that hard suit does it every week. Like how hard can it be? For me, I swear to God, it's the longest longest molecules we have ever, ever, ever had. Just because like I was so we made the pastry and we did the pie. And it was in and I was like, Okay, this is an easy bargain. He was just gonna stand here and drink beer and then eat pie. Cool. It just didn't cook. It just wouldn't. The pastry would not cook and I know now that my barbecue was nowhere near hot enough, right. But, you know, my lead thermometer was reading like 300 degrees. So I figured it was kind of you know, to 20 to 50 the Great. That's what I'd set my oven to if I was cooking pastry, right? I mean, let's be honest. Everyone says there are 200 degrees regardless of what they cook in. It You know, it's either you either 180 or 200 degrees.

Dan - Host: 1:10:02

So why don't you find 180? Fan? 200?

Unknown: 1:10:06

That's it, right? So 180 or 200. Any other temperature marking on your oven knob is irrelevant, right? Unless you unless you're trying to do something like slow cooking, and if that's the case, then do on the bulky, right. So I thought it'd be like 222 50 at the great, that will cook a pie. I know that because I've cooked a pie before inside. Did it fuck, like, two and odd? I think it was like, I think we ended up being on for two and a half hours. And at that point, I can see so much beer that I had no confidence, I could walk inside, let alone carry what was quite a hot pie dish, but this stage into the indoor ovens. It was just a disaster. That was awful. You know, and I know how to finish it inside. And just like, catastrophe.

Dan - Host: 1:10:53

That's the worst feeling ever. If you think I'm gonna have to finish this inside that is, is that's the bottom and I'll tell you a fail, which I can't I don't think I've told on here. It wasn't that long ago, actually. But I'll see if you can work out where the problem came. So I was doing spatchcock chicken went outside. And the wife was like I've got this on the table. It's a box of stuff, it'll give you extra height if you want. So I was like, Cool. So put a chopping board on there. Got the scissors, cut out the backbone, one side to side put down. Got a knife just to clean stuff up and stuff and put on the side. Take Take the bone out, flip the chicken over, push down to break it out and realize that it was an empty cardboard box push the chicken down the my foot up in the air and jump back as it almost takes up. I put my wrist because I've done it. Oh my god. Seems like you're I was like, Yeah, okay. Look round. No one's around me, okay, I can get away with this. But God did my heart jump out of my mouth, when I kept going

Unknown: 1:12:09

to the other one was, you know, we dispatch for chicken. So you could get in direct and then like, flip it over on the skin side to get the nice char on the skin. And it's another barbecue Wars related thing. But it's like, so I was doing that and I flipped it over. And then I think I like I felt the need to take the piss for a minute longer than I should have done. And I flicked the jacket back over and it's just black. Like, it's just been it's been skin side down over the coals for five minutes too long. And so it's one of those where, you know, I know exactly what I've done. I know exactly why it's happened. There's nothing that I could do. So yeah, no to but that's how we learned, right? That's, you know, and everyone's we're not gonna get it right every time. No. And I think that, you know, a lot of people are authentic about that on on on social media and on Instagram. It's not just because I think that social media, particularly through my lifetime, has been a real force for good. And I think anything that has the power to do that much good in the world also has the power to do harm. And it's something I'm mindful of where, you know, like a lot of people when I was at school, I gotta have a hard time. I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. And there's nothing that I kind of have a chip on my shoulder about that. When I went home that stopped. Yeah, I think that in today's world, there is a very real there's, you know, a reality that a lot of people, a lot of kids are living, where when you go home, it doesn't stop, it carries on on,

Dan - Host: 1:13:42

we need to be able to talk about this sort of thing. And when it comes up as well, because it's letting other people not just ourselves, but also our children know that if something's not right, and someone's not saying something that's right, we have to talk about it and get it out there and sorted. And social media is so hard to just go well, it's off. Now. I can't imagine being at school with Facebook God.

Unknown: 1:14:02

But also it's very easy to look at. I mean, if you just look at barbecue, it's very easy to look at Instagram and go. Oh, holy shit. This is how people eat. Like, you know, they're cooking and eating that every day. And you know, they've got families and they've got commitments, and I don't understand why I can't do that. Why am I saying like, Oh, maybe it's just me, but you know, maybe that's how I look at it though. I

Dan - Host: 1:14:21

feel like that a lot. I joked to Dan for urban street Erie. Again, that was like, the stuff that you put out on there. So colorful and so amazing. It put me off cooking for a little while. Yeah, cuz I was like, I can't do that. Why can't I do that? How feral, frankly. And it's meant to be a compliment, but it was almost like I feel sad about it. I don't because it's phenomenal what you're doing but yeah, people are able to produce that sort of stuff. You think I can't do that.

Unknown: 1:14:49

But it's like and then you sit there and go. You know, being involved in that world a little bit and talking system, some kind of some people you kind of sit there and go. Oh, yeah, but four nights a week he's getting home from work and having fuck all on toast for dinner because he's got to take his daughter to brownies in 10 minutes. And you know, all the stuff he's posting on Instagram is stuff that he spent a day filming a month ago. And so I think for me, it's got to be about enjoyment. It's got to be about conversation, it's got to be about it just just enjoying food. I just love honest reason.

Dan - Host: 1:15:26

Some of that has taken the control away which is exactly what I'm going to do right now for barbecue bingo. So it's a challenge and it makes things fun of course and we do it every single issue isn't the word I'm looking for every episode that's the right word. It's about the people we speak to or we feel very very skilled on the barbecue and st one we've set your challenge got a wheel with lots and lots of different ingredients on will spin the wheel wherever it lands on please do it tag us in hashtag BBQ bingo whenever you get the chance of it's six months away it's six months away but with a slight twist this series so when we come and pick yours you will then take that ingredient off and add a new ingredient on here for someone else to perhaps fall into. So depending on the size of the screen you're using you might be able to see a lot of the stuff on there can you read much of it?

Unknown: 1:16:20

Yeah I'm just starting starting to read a lot you know a lot of it is really good like it's you know, paella fantastical BBQ, liver, maple and pecan.

Dan - Host: 1:16:30

Whether we put on P can that is seen your spice punch has put on there. It's maple and pecan ice cream. As either you make it or use it as part of an ingredient to go with something on the side.

Unknown: 1:16:44

I'll be honest, I don't I don't want the sweet ones oily fish don't want the sweet pastry that would be awful. Plus, that's the one I don't want. I'll be honest and maple and pecan ice cream. I'll take sweet pastry I don't want over Jean Turkey mints. This is all great stuff.

Dan - Host: 1:17:06

You know what? Who doesn't look nervous now as soon as you started speaking about sweet stuff by all demeanor changed.

Unknown: 1:17:15

So don't want or don't want the sweet stuff or want anything else. Any of the other ingredients I've seen floating around chocolate buttons through that book was that you can do a dish. I love that one.

Dan - Host: 1:17:27

So what would my signature dish be? Or is she really be wings from what we were talking about?

Unknown: 1:17:34

No, my signature dish would be my steak sandwich 100%

Dan - Host: 1:17:38

off the when you turn off a sizzle Fest was beautiful. Yeah.

Unknown: 1:17:43

That was that was more or less it. Yeah. So I'll tell you a story about that. Once we've done barbecue bingo because I want to chuck down into the past but I if I had if I had to have a signature dish it would be steak sandwich 100%.

Dan - Host: 1:17:56

Let's see where it lands on show is give this a spin. There we go.

Unknown: 1:18:01

It's going to be chocolate buttons. Or

Dan - Host: 1:18:07

Turkey mints is so close to my signature dish as well.

Unknown: 1:18:10

Turkey mints, I'll take that all day long. I know exactly. Exactly what I'm

Dan - Host: 1:18:16

gonna make. It's up to you. You can talk us through it or you can keep it a surprise.

Unknown: 1:18:19

So well. I'll tell you what my mind goes to is I mean, it's something I've made before, which is so like I'm a massive fan of a club sandwich. Yeah. So I tried to do a burger that kind of represented that. So I did

Dan - Host: 1:18:36

the Big Mac it's kind of like a club sandwich right?

Unknown: 1:18:40

In the middle of a club language stands for what a club stands for the club sandwich stands for no it's chicken and lettuce under bacon. See,

Dan - Host: 1:18:51

I didn't know that I always assumed a club sandwich meant the Welsh part of me perhaps slice of bread something piece of bread something top no separate bit because normally a club sandwich comes as like a three rather than

Unknown: 1:19:08

a Yeah, so it's chicken lettuce under bacon is what club stands for.

Dan - Host: 1:19:12

To be fair who knows what's in the Big Mac right

Unknown: 1:19:18

so I did so I did a turkey Mintzberg Turkey mints duty Lucy so I had cheese mozzarella cheese inside the turkey mints burger. I then wrapped the burger in streaky bacon smoked though those and then finish them off direct on the coals so just a Chris bought the bacon and then serve that in a barn with dirty on your mayo and avocado.

Dan - Host: 1:19:45

So good.

Unknown: 1:19:47

That was great. Yeah, turkey this is great. Good for you. It's quite low fat content a lot of time though. So you've got to be really careful with like,

Dan - Host: 1:19:54

being careful my dad because he wants to overcooked it and he was like it was so dry. This

Unknown: 1:19:59

will be dry so that's the thing, but then do you do something like I really like like baked eggs or something like that with it again? Because it's like it's like chicken isn't it? It's a really open book in terms of flavor to flavor it however you want. So I do things like like baked eggs where you do like a nice almost like a meaty Shakshuka. Yeah, which is the word I can't say by the way. So, uh, yeah. Something like that. There's a lot of stuff going on in my head like really heavily spiced like delicious Moroccan meatballs. I think it's just because we were talking about

Dan - Host: 1:20:29

free was so well liked.

Unknown: 1:20:33

You know, you can always add a bit of, you know, I'd be allowed I'm sure to add a bit of a almost add a bit of poor connection to that just to just to kind of get that fat content flowing through.

Dan - Host: 1:20:43

What ingredient Do you think you want to add to take over from Turkey mints?

Unknown: 1:20:47

I would like to add please, because they are so underrated. Anchovies.

Dan - Host: 1:20:53

Oh, what a way to improve a source. Or

Unknown: 1:20:58

basically anything that you feel needs more of that umami flavor, like sauce, stew, piece of meat, whatever. And then because they they met in there. Yeah, exactly. And that you don't taste fish. You just taste like umami like that, that savory note in the back of the tongue, that clouds and I feel like a lot of people, myself included, will taste something and then add salt to it. And then taste it again. And you don't really taste any difference. Whereas if you add something like miso, or anchovies, you actually do get that increased savory note that you're looking for. Like, it's been through knowing Damn, and other chefs that I vaguely know this now. But a lot of time when we're adding salt to things we're not we're not trying to add salt, we need to add umami or we need to add an acid like lemon juice or vinegar to kind of elevate those flavors. But like It's little things like that, that I've got out of our community, which which take, take the cooking kind of to the next the next level. And it's not hard is it you know, if you know that, you know, I'll add a dash of cider vinegar or data red wine vinegar to the source, then it's going to make it much

Dan - Host: 1:22:11

nicer. Tell us about this steak sandwich and throw it down and write us so

Unknown: 1:22:18

there was a pub in the park in Marlowe last year. And so there they put out a call on social media the barbecue mark where they were doing the barbecue hero competition. And you had to submit teams of two you had to submit a picture of a cook you'd recently done. And I asked Dan, do you fancy trucker hat in the ring like barbecue hero competition and the judges were Simon Rivera, Simon Rimmer. Shropshire lad Adam Pinel and Tom carriage. And we will so like, I know that Tom carriage is Dan's absolute cookie hero as he is for a lot of us, frankly. But so Dan said absolutely. Let's apply, you know, you never know might get in. Anyway. God sent me a picture of one of these like Taco tables that he does, you know, have you seen this? Where

Dan - Host: 1:23:14

do you get blue into a food picture? That sort of thing that he does? Yeah, exactly.

Unknown: 1:23:19

So anyway, so he anyway, we got in, shockingly. And so the challenge was to cook you had we knew we were gonna get a steak. We knew we were gonna get some sort of charcoal BBQ to cook on whether it was a whether a KJ, or could I. And then we were gonna get a chip out of all the other ingredients were like, mystery ingredients. We had to make our ultimate steak sandwich. To like, I'll be honest with you, at this point, I was like, well, we're going to fucking win.

Dan - Host: 1:23:57

But we'll nail this.

Unknown: 1:24:00

Because it's like, I'll vaguely do, I'll hang around and you know, have a beer and do some shopping and Dan can make a steak sandwich and then we'll win. Right? So and we you know, we have a bit of a chat about it. And we come up with a bit of a game plan on what we're going to do and we talk about it a lot, and I'm really excited. Anyway, morning of Dan phones me and says, May I do not feel good? Like we went out for dinner last night. I'm not good. One of my little ads isn't good. I'm really not in a good way. I'm gonna try and see how I feel. And I'll let you know and lunchtime. And I was like, fuck it so then is that I was like, and they phoned me up at lunchtime. He was like, me and one of my sons, like we're being admitted to hospital. There is something wrong with us. I'm not I'm not gonna make it obviously. And I was like, okay, That's fine. Obviously there are more important things and then it was kind of sitting there in my head and I was like, do I go do I not or drop out or blah and then so I phoned them and said like this is the crack I'm perfectly happy I thought this these opportunities don't come around every every day. I'm perfectly happy to come down and go by myself so kind of and they said, Yeah, that's fine. We'll find someone to kind of you know kind of back you up fine. So I went I went down I had a lovely time and you know, had a few beers or whatever. And it came time to cook and there was a guy from one of the stands who came to came to cook with me and helped me out but it was really kind of my show. So we could you know, could die fireball no idea, like never goes on one before but fires fire right. So anyway, so knock out this the steak sandwich that was vaguely like the plan that I had figured this out and then I went to feel good, was great. It's brilliant. Like one of the honestly like probably one of the one of the best days of my life you know, you know if there but if those boys that if those boys think I can cook if they if I can knock up something that those judges think is half decent, then you know I must be my fuel right, you know.

Dan - Host: 1:26:29

Last thing so I'm conscious of the time when we're coming to the end of the podcast. We have said throughout this episode that we talk about your journey into barbecue. So before we go, let's introduce everyone to how you got into barbecue and inspire some people before we finish.

Unknown: 1:26:46

So it's not I suppose it's the same story a lot of people so as to say what's real stock in 2014 I got into like American lodestone barbecue. I bought my beloved little baby 37 centimeter or was bought it for a birthday present my 30th actually and so started doing you know slow cook, slow cook shoulder of lamb slow cook ribs, pull pork brisket, blah, blah. And I still had my Jamie Oliver grill at this stage. And that really knighted like because I like cooking. I like eating I'm a greedy so and so. I like having food to eat and I like I know what what good food tastes like. So I like cooking I find it therapeutic for the administrative. It's just you know, everyone needs a hobby. I've got five but cooking is definitely one of them. So I got a slightly bigger grill then at that point, I've got my big Outback full barrel barbecue, because I want to be able to care for more people. I found my fantastic local artisan and charcoal producers, lovely, lovely people here and Carolyn who live in like this chocolate box cottage, which they've built in the forest. And it's it's just like it's everyone's ideal life. Right? They are, you know, off grid making charcoal, they can't cook, which is odd. So I'm slowly teaching them how to barbecue, right? They made this fantastic product in the heart of Northamptonshire. Anyway. So, yeah, so it really is just about my journey to barbecue is about me discovering through a community and through YouTube, that I love cooking over word, I love the flavor that it gives food. I love the community and how positive it is. It was really came from an interest in American low and slow barbecue, and the history of that and the ritual of that. That led me to kind of the UK barbecue scene. I started my Instagram page in, I think April 2020, something of that nature. And just, yeah, I've had a great time with it. I got so I wanted to upgrade my outback. I really wanted to WSN WeatherMaster. sorry not to be awesome. And one of the guys in our community, Rob's bug you who lives down the road from me actually, he heard me on barbecue was talking about how it was my birthday coming up. And I really wanted this webmaster search. And he actually phoned me and said, I've just won and you must search in a competition. So do you want my old one? And I was like, Yeah, great. Thank you very much. That's really generous, but like, and this is a guy who I met through Instagram who lives if we're being generous three and a half miles down the road. Wow. So yeah, and November, I think November 2020. We built my barbecue Shack which was literally driven by a wish to not be wet when I was doing barbecue was just tired of being rained on. So yeah, my journey I you know, I don't really describe it as a journey into barbecue. It's more fun Journey Through barbecue because we're all on that journey. It's really driven by meeting great people like yourself. And you know, trying to bring some some positivity to, to social media.

Dan - Host: 1:30:13

So anyone out there who's listening to this watching stuff on YouTube, thinking, I want to give it a go or maybe do on the side. And so maybe I can get into a bit more. Give it two years, you could be winning a steak sandwich competition. Simon, Tom, carry on carry, you know, but you know, it's fantastic talking to you. I know that I'm going to be talking to you again very shortly as well about other bits and pieces. But thanks so much for the time as well. And one more time, how can people find you?

Unknown: 1:30:42

So I literally barbecue Tom, UK on Instagram. I'm not involved in YouTube or Facebook or whatever else. But just because, you know, I don't know how to adapt the time.

Dan - Host: 1:30:53

It's the amount of editing goes into this.

Unknown: 1:30:57

Honestly, more power to choose where you find the energy. So yeah, I'm like, I mean, like you just said, if anyone's looking at anything that we're cooking or anything we're doing on Instagram, just reach out any of the bigger accounts, you know, you get Eli's like country with smoke Marcus Borden, or smoking elk. He's now got barbecue school. But these are like you send the messages. You know, they will respond. They will have one follower saying hey, that looks really good. How do you do that? And they respond. Or they call you and say hey, great to meet you. Like let's have a conversation is just it's an awesome awesome community and I really think that the level of is so with food but particularly with barbecue if you put in like 5% more thought and effort you get 50% More result back you know, go get out there by actually start to get some decent charcoal. Have a go. That's all I do. I've just just honestly just knocked over the grill. I've got like 2% knowledge and you know, 95% enthusiasm. And the rest of its

Dan - Host: 1:32:02

just be well, nobody with the grill. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me is great. As always. I'll see you very soon. Thanks so much, man. Thanks. Bye. Thanks for having me. Cheers, man. Bye all good, man. Cool. Well, good. Yeah. Have a good one. And we're chatting to you again next week away.

Unknown: 1:32:24

I think so. My diary is so fucking full that like, it's just that and it's like

Dan - Host: 1:32:32

and that's the end of another episode of the meat & Greet BBQ podcast a huge thank you to Bob Q Tom for speaking to us today. Some fantastic tips there. And all sorts of great fruit just go across search from on Instagram and you'll see some fantastic stuff and some great inspiration. So if you want to learn more about us you can google us & Greet BBQ podcast you'll find our Instagram pages or perhaps on YouTube Tik Tok. You'll also find our website where you can ask us questions and things we also have a shop with various affiliates that we're working with. And also a buy us a coffee and any money that was donated to us we will put back into making these fantastic episodes for you and we would love to hear from you. So please do write to us as well. We also have some great merchandise there to have a look at too. And until next time, keep on grilling

Owen - Host: 1:33:31

Today's episode is brought to you by aos kitchens, the South's leading outdoor kitchen design and installation specialists